Flooring dispute

matticus7

Hi,

I'm not sure if this is the correct sub-forum but I was hoping someone would be able to help my wife and I with an issue we're having with our flooring being fitted.

We went to a well known flooring store in our area to replace existing laminate flooring in our home as we're planning to sell it and wanted the old wood was rotting away and wouldn't have looked appealing to prospective buyers. We agreed on the price and to use their suggested fitters which worked out approx £1100 for the wood and £800 for the fitting throughout the whole house. This all started in June.

Since this all started we've had nothing but issues. I'll try to sum it all up without writing up a massive rant.

The fitters came out and laid the flooring in the bedroom as it was the furthest room in the home, everything went fine at the time.

They then started to move into the passage and again everything seemed fine, no issues at this point.

When they got to the do the flooring in the living room / open kitchen area they noticed there was damp under the old council tiles which have concrete underneath. They lifted the tiles up and told us they wouldn't be able to fit it until we sorted the problem out and advised we lift all of the tiles up and let the room dry out.

We did this and only after a few days of finishing it did we realise that the tiles are from the 60s and likely contained elements of asbestos. If they didn't then the black mastic holding them down very likely did and as this was disturbed we feared for what we had just done and our 3 young kids

We then waited around 3-4 weeks for the flooring to be completed in the living room and kitchen despite numerous texts advising our concerns for our kids having to walk around on this floor

The final job was to finish the bathroom with LVT which was done to a good standard but again there was a hassle getting them back out to finish that room (it's now August!)

After all the work was completed we had the heatwave and over the next few days 2 different parts of the house started to buckle really badly.

After numerous attempts to resolve this directly I'd had enough and went back to the store and complained to their manager who was very understanding and sent her assistant manager out to assess the work that needed to be done to fix the flooring

He advised that as the buckling was as you leave the bedroom going into the passage and also the adjoining part of the passage it was likely something to do with the door frame section that was causing the problem and the best solution would be to cut it, place a door bar (which I didn't want as it was supposed to be flowing through the house) and that would give both sides breathing room to flatten out. I begrudgingly accepted this and waited for the fitters to come out.

The fitters came out a few days later and said they couldn't do that as the wood went under the door frame and wouldn't be able to be cut and advised they would take the back row off the bedroom to allow it to move in that direction which worked.... for the bedroom part. The passage is still like a bouncy castle to walk on.

Fast forward and we're now told their plan is to cut the floor (which couldn't be done before) and fit a door bar to separate the rooms and relay new flooring as it's probably too damaged by now with the buckling in the passage (only 4 planks)

They are due to come out on 14/10/19 to do this and there's no guarantees this will be the end of the story

So my question is what rights do I have here for compensation, if any? I bought the flooring from a chain store on my credit card, was advised their fitters were in high demand because of the quality of their work so agreed to use their fitters and have paid for the flooring and the fitting in full to both parties when I thought the work was "finished". The fitters were paid in cash with no receipt given.

I've had to take so many days off work for this I've lost count, god knows how many calls, voicemails, unanswered calls and texts and we're not getting what we wanted in flooring that flows through the home now with a door bar needed to break up one of the rooms.

The stress this has caused to my wife and I is unmeasurable over the last 4 months and I'm still concerned about the fact we were potentially exposed to asbestos with the fitters lifting and breaking the floor tiles and telling us to lift the rest.

Any help would be really appreciated as we're both just lost in this whole mess at the minute.

Doozergirl

I think you're better off in the consumer rights board.

This isn't the sort of stuff that even us lot in industry deal with very much. We're the helpful ones!

Fire_Fox

Welcome to MSE.

Run an advanced search on asbestos on this subforum. The minimal risk from such a possible exposure is minimal.

£800 for an entire house sounds cheap. What EXACTLY did they quote for and do for that? Sounds like basic fit only?

Who lifted the old rotten flooring? Who was supposed to prep all the different subfloors? Could they reasonably have forseen the damp, did they observe/ know that the old flooring was rotten?

Who fitted the door frame over the new laminate .... or did they fit it underneath? Did the fitters leave expansion gaps around the room? Can be filled with a squishy substance or covered by a beading for neatness. Google the recommended prep and fitting for that type and brand of flooring and see if it was adhered to.

Lastly you mention numerous attempts at casual/ informal/ semi-formal communication but no formal letter(s) of complaint? Bulleting is good, list dates/ names/ job titles, quote paperwork and official websites .... Copy to head office/ company customer service/ complaints department.

HTH.

matticus7

Fire_Fox wrote: »

Welcome to MSE.

Run an advanced search on asbestos on this subforum. The minimal risk from such a possible exposure is minimal.

Yeah, I looked into that and was somewhat reassured that you have to be exposed to it frequently for there to be issues, thanks

Fire_Fox wrote: »

£800 for an entire house sounds cheap. What EXACTLY did they quote for and do for that? Sounds like basic fit only?

Sorry, I should clarify that some rooms have carpet or didn't need to be fitted. They were paid £800 for approx 66 sq ft of flooring and underlay to be fitted.

Fire_Fox wrote: »

Who lifted the old rotten flooring? Who was supposed to prep all the different subfloors? Could they reasonably have forseen the damp, did they observe/ know that the old flooring was rotten?

I lifted the old flooring myself and noticed no damp. The living room / kitchen is open plan with concrete sub floor and a layer of old floor tiles stuck on top with black mastic from when the building was built. We've been here 20 years and there's never been issues with putting carpet or laminate over the tile with underlay between the tile and new flooring.

The only damp they noticed was when they went digging under the tile (don't know why they did) and found it was wet. I was later advised by someone who deals with damp that it could have been there forever as it was sealed between the concrete, mastic and tile and wouldn't have surfaced unless that seal was broken which is what they did by removing the tile.

Fire_Fox wrote: »

Who fitted the door frame over the new laminate .... or did they fit it underneath? Did the fitters leave expansion gaps around the room? Can be filled with a squishy substance or covered by a beading for neatness. Google the recommended prep and fitting for that type and brand of flooring and see if it was adhered to.

It was fitted underneath with a 1mm gap under the frame as the older flooring was thicker. They left enough expansion gap around the door frames and we had beading fitted to allow them to leave enough space also.

Fire_Fox wrote: »

Lastly you mention numerous attempts at casual/ informal/ semi-formal communication but no formal letter(s) of complaint? Bulleting is good, list dates/ names/ job titles, quote paperwork and official websites .... Copy to head office/ company customer service/ complaints department.

HTH.

The contact has been mainly with the fitter who owns the company that the work was sub contracted to by the flooring store. I am only dealing with the manager of the flooring store when things don't get resolved or the fitter / owner of the fitting company ignores me. I did ask the manager of the flooring store for a copy of their complaints process etc but she wanted to try and resolve the issue herself first which she did by them getting back out again but we're now back to being messed around so a formal letter of complaint may be the next step.

As the flooring was provided by the flooring company and fitted by a sub contracted company would my complaint officially be with the flooring company as they provided the service (flooring and arranging fitting) or the fitter's sub company directly for the hassle I've endured?

Fire_Fox

matticus7 wrote: »

I lifted the old flooring myself and noticed no damp. The living room / kitchen is open plan with concrete sub floor and a layer of old floor tiles stuck on top with black mastic from when the building was built. We've been here 20 years and there's never been issues with putting carpet or laminate over the tile with underlay between the tile and new flooring.

Rotten flooring suggests chronic low level damp.

Sounds like you took ( or were given!) responsibility for the preparation of the subfloors. If the supply company organised the fitting, IMO they should have given you guidance on preparing correctly. Was there any paperwork or verbal advice?

matticus7 wrote: »

The only damp they noticed was when they went digging under the tile (don't know why they did) and found it was wet. I was later advised by someone who deals with damp that it could have been there forever as it was sealed between the concrete, mastic and tile and wouldn't have surfaced unless that seal was broken which is what they did by removing the tile.

Not in the fitters' interests to go digging needlessly though. Unless it was beer garden o'clock?

Old tiles can be brittle. Perhaps the fitters were scraping a lump of old glue/ filler/ mastic off the surface prior to laying and the corner of a tile cracked away .... guessing of course.

matticus7 wrote: »

The contact has been mainly with the fitter who owns the company that the work was sub contracted to by the flooring store. I am only dealing with the manager of the flooring store when things don't get resolved or the fitter / owner of the fitting company ignores me. I did ask the manager of the flooring store for a copy of their complaints process etc but she wanted to try and resolve the issue herself first which she did by them getting back out again but we're now back to being messed around so a formal letter of complaint may be the next step.

As the flooring was provided by the flooring company and fitted by a sub contracted company would my complaint officially be with the flooring company as they provided the service (flooring and arranging fitting) or the fitter's sub company directly for the hassle I've endured?

Is it a subcontract or a referral/ recommendation (no doubt for a kickback)?

The exact wording of any paperwork, estimate or quotes could be key. Is it on the flooring supplier headed paper, for example? Did you pay a deposit for the fitting to either company, did you get a receipt for that?

Or did you pay the entire sum directly to the fitters? If yes request an itemised receipt. If they provide one, you arguably have evidence that your contract for that specific service is with the fitting company themselves.

Sorry if it sounds like I am blaming you, I really am not. You seem to have been left high-and-dry at times. I suspect one or other company knows they have made a mistake, and it suits them to have you floating between the two. Not clear who you are contracted to, not clear who to hold responsible. :mad:

TELLIT01

If laminate is being laid it would seem that the old rotting boards are being left down, and the only aim is to hide the problem from prospective purchasers. It's possible that the reason the old boards are/were rotting is the same reason the new laminate is buckling.

matticus7

Fire_Fox wrote: »

Not in the fitters' interests to go digging needlessly though. Unless it was beer garden o'clock?

It's funny you say that... my wife pointed out that every time they put off the work with an excuse was almost always on a Friday or when they turned up mid afternoon. On the days they worked first thing in the morning they always managed to do a few hours work before finding an excuse to come back another time.

Fire_Fox wrote: »

Is it a subcontract or a referral/ recommendation (no doubt for a kickback)?
The exact wording of any paperwork, estimate or quotes could be key. Is it on the flooring supplier headed paper, for example? Did you pay a deposit for the fitting to either company, did you get a receipt for that?

I'm not sure which it would be considered really. All I know is they are 2 separate companies and on my receipt from the store they wrote "£790 to be paid to fitter" however the fitter says they get their work from the flooring shop and a few other shops.

TELLIT01 wrote: »

If laminate is being laid it would seem that the old rotting boards are being left down, and the only aim is to hide the problem from prospective purchasers. It's possible that the reason the old boards are/were rotting is the same reason the new laminate is buckling.

First of all we didn't try to hide anything from prospective buyers as I wouldn't risk that coming back to bite me.

The old boards were completely lifted and removed. The fitters lifted tiles that didn't need to be lifted which showed damp underneath. This has since been rectified before the new underlay and laminate flooring was fitted with the fitters approval that it was good to go after we lifted all of the tiles from the floor and dealt with the damp underneath.

The reason for them being rotten (probably not the best word on my part) is because they were water damaged from a burst pipe in 1 room and we decided to replace all of the rooms with the new flooring as our previous layout had the flooring be the same throughout the house and it also seemed to be more appealing for new buyers to have it flowing through the house in the same style.

Also, I followed the original suggestion and posted this in the consumers right board in case anyone else comes across a similar issue (hopefully not!)