Public\shared sewer neighbours extension

Amyrosa

Our neighbour has submitted plans for an extension, which we are not opposing. However we were a bit confused/concerned about the access to a shared sewer which they plan to build over as this could potentially affect our private drain/sewer.

We are the first in a line of two houses so I believe (based on discussion with building control) the sewer which runs under our 50 year old extension is private. We know the line of the sewer, and that we are first in the run, because we discovered an old manhole cover when we did some renovations last year. Building control have said we would be able to close our manhole up as its private, provided there is access further along the line for rodding. Next door who are planning to extend over their manhole cover currently provide this access.

When next door submitted their plans to the council their architect has guessed at the location of the sewer (which is totally inaccurate) and plans to move it so that it is no longer in line with the current sewer. Their manhole cover also needs moving for their extension and they plan for it to be in their shared drive rather than the garden.

My questions to you all are:

1. Are they able to move the access chamber to be out of the current plot/ line of sewer? As this would prevent rodding which I think needs a straight line? They have the space on their shared drive to put the new chamber in line with the current plot/line.

2. If they were able to move it out of line would this prevent us from closing up our manhole cover in our dining room? Is there any difference for them as it’s a shared sewer compared to us where it’s private?

3. Do I need to tell planning/building control about the plans being inaccurate and my concerns about the location of the proposed manhole cover/sewer or will they identify this themselves?

I don’t want to create any ill feeling with my neighbour, nor potentially get embroiled in something that is unnecessary, so if this is something that I don’t need to worry about then I’d rather leave it for building control/planning to identify/enforce etc. I would however in an ideal world have them be able to have their extension and for us to be able to close up the manhole in our dining room.

Any comments/advice or insight would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Davesnave

Is there no room for you to put an access chamber or rodding eye into your private part of the sewer within your own land?

Doozergirl

Here's your thing. What's happened on your land isn't correct and ultimately your issue. You cannot expect your neighbour to maintain nearby access for you on a permanent basis.

If there is a turn in the sewer, there needs to be access. That's usually an inspection chamber although sometimes you can get away with a Y joint and rodding access, depending in what goes into the sewer at a specific point eg. grey water.

You don't need to tell building control because they'll be inspecting it as it's done. If it isn't the same as the plans, the builder will have to alter the route.

It would be a good idea, if you know the exact route of the sewers, to tell your neighbours though so they can plan ahead.

Amyrosa

Davesnave I don’t know really, the only way I think we could relocate it to outside would be to go in a straight line about 5 meters in the opposite direction, this would be a dead end if that makes sense as we don’t have a sewer in our shared drive to connect it to. It would also mean that we would have to dig through the kitchen foundations to do. If this is an option then I’m happy to consider it as we are at some point wanting to redo the kitchen/extension but I genuinely don’t know enough about what is and isn’t possible. If we have to live with it inside then we were thinking of trying to create a downstairs loo/utility area and have it within there.

Amyrosa

Doozergirl wrote: »

Here's your thing. What's happened on your land isn't correct and ultimately your issue. You cannot expect your neighbour to maintain nearby access for you on a permanent basis.

If there is a turn in the sewer, there needs to be access. That's usually an inspection chamber although sometimes you can get away with a Y joint and rodding access, depending in what goes into the sewer at a specific point eg. grey water.

You don't need to tell building control because they'll be inspecting it as it's done. If it isn't the same as the plans, the builder will have to alter the route.

It would be a good idea, if you know the exact route of the sewers, to tell your neighbours though so they can plan ahead.

Thanks for your response. I do have every intention of sharing this information with the neighbours, we don’t want to make things more complicated for them as they have been good neighbours so far.

I know that nowadays having an internal manhole cover is not allowed but I was also under the impression that it was not uncommon in older properties when things were a bit different. Unfortunately we only found out about our manhole cover after we’d bought the property otherwise I’m not sure I’d have proceeded with the sale. We have accepted it’s our issue but obviously if a remedy/potential remedy presents itself to move access outside/elsewhere then we would want to explore whether it’s possible for us.

The thing that Im not sure I understand is why when I spoke to building control they seemed to have no issue with us closing up our access provided next door had access for rodding. I explained the whole situation about the extension and them having external access along the run and they said it was straightforward for us to close it up and that we wouldn’t need permission from any of the water companies, nor did we have to notify anyone except them of any work.

One point you make which I wanted to explore was about us not being able to expect them to maintain access for us. What happens in other semidetached properties where there is only access to the drain in one of the shared drives? I’m just thinking of my mums house where I’m sure her manhole provides access to both hers and her neighbours drain. Do all properties have their own access chambers?

I hope you don’t find my questions dismissive of your initial response but I’m really just trying to understand things as thoroughly as I can. I’m also really not wanting to stitch up my neighbours.

Newuser1987

Just because the neighbour is building over doesnt mean they wont have access. Majority of the time a new inspection chamber will be built outside the extension which is then connected to the main sewer. This provides the roddable access that is needed. Not every house requires access to the public drains. I cant remember the exact distance but normally the sewer companies only require access every 100m or something unless there is a change of direction or connection.

Also if you are first in the run of the sewer then yours is a public sewer not a private one. If you are at the end of the run then it would be a private sewer.

I wouldnt worry yourself with this stuff. The neighbour will be required to get a build over agreement with the sewer company and building control will be inspecting the drainage works.

Amyrosa

Newuser1987 wrote: »

Just because the neighbour is building over doesnt mean they wont have access. Majority of the time a new inspection chamber will be built outside the extension which is then connected to the main sewer. This provides the roddable access that is needed. Not every house requires access to the public drains. I cant remember the exact distance but normally the sewer companies only require access every 100m or something unless there is a change of direction or connection.

Also if you are first in the run of the sewer then yours is a public sewer not a private one. If you are at the end of the run then it would be a private sewer.

I wouldnt worry yourself with this stuff. The neighbour will be required to get a build over agreement with the sewer company and building control will be inspecting the drainage works.

Thanks for your response. The neighbour is actually planning on moving their current inspection chamber from their patio (where the extension will be) into the shared drive about 2 meters further away then it is currently so they will not have an internal access point. This is why I saw it as a potential opportunity to resolve our issue with minimal fuss and impact on anyone else, especially if they potentially had to allow access anyway as it was a shared drain.

Newuser1987

Then I dont see why you have an issue for them to move it 2m away? You will have just as much right to access as you do now (none). Its the responsibility of the sewer company to access and maintain so again if they approve what your neighbour is planning to do I cant see why you have an issue.

I am not really clear what your issue is regarding your own drainage. If you dont have access now then your neighbour moving theirs 2m isnt going to make any difference?

Amyrosa

Newuser1987 wrote: »

Then I dont see why you have an issue for them to move it 2m away? You will have just as much right to access as you do now (none). Its the responsibility of the sewer company to access and maintain so again if they approve what your neighbour is planning to do I cant see why you have an issue.

I am not really clear what your issue is regarding your own drainage. If you dont have access now then your neighbour moving theirs 2m isnt going to make any difference?[/QUOTE

I think there has been a misunderstanding, I don’t have an issue with them doing this work, although I did voice some concerns initially about where the architect incorrectly guessed the sewer to be and whether this would create any issues for us regarding closing up our manhole based upon the initial guidance we had from building control, or even if they could move it to the new proposed site.


Again my understanding based upon reading up on the info from the water company, the builder who fitted our new cover and building control is that ours is a private drain as the drain on our property only service our house but once they cross the boundary to next door, my understanding is that it then becomes a shared/public sewer. I think that the rules around access etc then alter as it is the property of the water company who need to have access to maintain it. Like I said above I’m trying my hardest to understand all of this with no prior knowledge of sewers/drains except for the fact that they exist, this is our first property and we never expected to find a manhole in our extension as it was well hidden under thick carpet.