Flow Energy charging final 3 weeks at standard variable rate, despite us having a tariff

He8764

Ok, so basically I've been living in the same flat since 2017, with my flatmate handling most bills, and a Flow account for energy with a good tariff.

This July he decided the move out, and my partner moved in. Knowing that our tariff with Flow would finish at end of September we decided to switch providers rather than go through the process of adding my name to the Flow account. Now obviously we didn't understand the typical switching process, because I OK'd my flatmate to close the old account at the same time as we set up a new account (with Bulb this time). We thought that doing it this way we'd have the new account take over right away, and gave the same readings to Flow and Bulb.

6 weeks later we got a surprise energy bill for 3 weeks of energy, except it was £90, vs the ~£50 we would have expected on our tariff. It's not as bad as I've seen some people getting hit by on this forum, but for us it was a big surprise bill. We're happy to pay for the energy, but want to do so under the tariff rate we should have been charged under.

Apparently what happened is Flow set up a new account in my name with a variable rate, and the switch didn't take effect right away. If they'd informed my flatmate that closing the account was the wrong way to go about a switch before he closed it, we would have never done it this way.

Flow's customer services have been hopeless, with most people having no idea how to deal with this and others just being patronising about it. I initially opened a complaint, on 23rd August, but that was wholly ignored, and when I chased up was just told "there's a note that if he calls back tell him we sent a welcome letter" (we didn't receive a welcome letter and it's a poor response at best). I sent a written complaint on 18th September which also seems to have been ignored.

I am waiting out to go through Ombudsman, but they've been sending letters threatening to pass on to a debt collection agency, and we just received a final one saying they're about to do it. I have no interest in my credit rating getting a black mark, but it's unclear if that would happen or not.

I'm a bit at a loss if I have any recourse here, or how to go about this? At this point I feel they've shown no interest in engaging with the issue and have just resorted to bullying and patronising us, so really don't want to reward that behaviour, but I'm not sure if this situation is really covered by my consumer rights?

Any advice on this? The ideal outcome is we pay for the energy, but under the tariff rate we would have been on without our switching mistake.

Ectophile

Unfortunately, I think they are right.


Your flatmate moved out and closed their account. You opened a new account - which would not be on the old tariff as you are not the same customer. It's then up to you as a new "deemed" customer to choose a tariff you like or start the process to switch suppliers. But switching suppliers has a cooling off period, and so it takes some time.


Is their deemed tariff really 80% higher then their best deal?

bsms1147

He8764 wrote: »

I have no interest in my credit rating getting a black mark, but it's unclear if that would happen or not.

I think this is a possible outcome.

I wouldn't want to affect my credit report for what is in essence £20. Much worse in the long run.

He8764

Thanks both.

I understand that if I'd moved in I would have been on a variable rate by default, it's just that I've been here so long and this was due to a simple misunderstanding.

What's really polarising me is that they've refused to even engage with me on this. They've closed 2 complaints now without so much as sending me an email to inform me, and as a result I can't even get a deadlock letter to go to Ombudsman because their complaints department don't take phone calls.

Can they really send a bill to debt collectors before 8 weeks have passed when a dispute is raised? That seems extremely dodgy and anti-consumer, but it's what their letters are implying they're about to do.

NotLucky

He8764 wrote: »

Thanks both.

I understand that if I'd moved in I would have been on a variable rate by default, it's just that I've been here so long and this was due to a simple misunderstanding.

What's really polarising me is that they've refused to even engage with me on this. They've closed 2 complaints now without so much as sending me an email to inform me, and as a result I can't even get a deadlock letter to go to Ombudsman because their complaints department don't take phone calls.

Can they really send a bill to debt collectors before 8 weeks have passed when a dispute is raised? That seems extremely dodgy and anti-consumer, but it's what their letters are implying they're about to do.

If I understand you correctly, they have not referred this matter to debt collectors yet, only sent you a letter that they would if the account was not settled.

When we left Eon, quite a few years ago now, they sent us a letter threatening debt collectors before we even received their bill!
We were receiving bills by post at the time, and had complained to them earlier as the bills were taking longer and longer to arrive, based upon the date included on the bill, leaving us very little time to pay. I think they were taking over 10 days to arrive towards the end, and they were expecting payment within 14 days of the bill date.
When the final bill arrived, they expected immediate payment. The threatening letter was sent 7 days later, and we received that the next day. The final bill to which the threatening letter referred arrived a couple of days after that, being 10 days after the date on the bill.

The Eon response to the complaint? They were not responsible for any postal delays (but as this was an ongoing issue with their bills, not other correpondence, to our mind this was caused by some delay their end getting the bills into the postal system, but we couldn't prove it)

Anyway, complaints should not be closed without customer consent. If you have it in writing that the complaint has been closed, that is effectively saying the supplier has given you their final response on the matter.
The ombudsman service will accept that as an alternative to a deadlock letter, as a deadlock letter is simply the same thing; that the supplier has given their final response.

But you say they have "without so much as sending me an email to inform me" that they have closed the compliants, so how do you know they have? :huh:

He8764

But you say they have "without so much as sending me an email to inform me" that they have closed the compliants, so how do you know they have?

Ah I've called them multiple times since August so it's all been verbal. Called them yesterday to chase the written complaint I sent in September and the advisor said it had been closed with a resolution that "it's been forwarded to another department" and they reopened it with a request to call me. Didn't tell me what department though so I have no idea what they're playing at.

NotLucky

He8764 wrote: »

Ah I've called them multiple times since August so it's all been verbal. Called them yesterday to chase the written complaint I sent in September and the advisor said it had been closed with a resolution that "it's been forwarded to another department" and they reopened it with a request to call me. Didn't tell me what department though so I have no idea what they're playing at.

Well there are 2 ways you can handle that situation.

1. Write them an email confirming what you thought was said in the telephone conversation; that then pulls the ball firmly in their court if they wish to contest your version of the call.

2. Calls to most if not all energy suppliers are recorded; request a copy of that telephone recording.

If the supplier has now informed you to contact them, call them on their usual custmer service number. There will be a record of somone having made that request, who it was, and why you should be calling back. (e.g what person/department needs to speak to you)

In regards to pursuing debts, most suppliers will agree to hold collection activities if there is an active complaint in progress regarding that amount, although it's best to ask specifically for such a hold if that is what you want/expect. Some suppliers may only agree to hold collection activities relating to that amount actually in dispute and would expect you to pay the remainder that is not disputed. E.g if they send you a bill for £100, and you argue it should only be £80, they will expect you to pay the £80 uncontested.

However, once the supplier has given you their final response (e.g by closing the complaint), then they will actively resume collection (based on that final response)
Collection will usually again be halted once the Ombudsman Service alerts the supplier that the matter has been escalated to them, but they don't wait just in case they hear from the Ombudsman as you may not ever take the matter to the Ombudsman.

mac.d

He8764 wrote: »

Thanks both.

I understand that if I'd moved in I would have been on a variable rate by default, it's just that I've been here so long and this was due to a simple misunderstanding.

Ectophile is absolutely spot on. It's not just if you are a new tenant that you are put on a deemed tariff, but also if the bill-payer changes. Not just in the circumstances you've experienced, but also if the person dies - even if its a family member that takes on the account, the only exception made will be for husband/wife (and I think that's even at the suppliers discretion).

This is because the original tariff you were on was a contract between your flatmate and Flow, as soon as he notified them he was moving out, the contract ends, and you as the new bill-payer for the electricity & gas are placed on a deemed tariff, and you can then agree a new tariff with Flow, or choose to move to another supplier.

Your only complaint can be that you didn't receive the welcome letter so weren't aware that you were on a deemed tariff. Is that enough for Flow or OFGEM to find in your favour? Is it worth all your hassle for the amount of money in question?

If you think its worth the hassle knowing that they are right to be charging you on a deemed tariff, as NotLucky says, you could contact them, tell them you have a complaint open with them and are happy to pay the £50 you accept you owe but are contesting their figure and want the bill put on hold while they deal with your complaint. Ask them to issue you with a deadlock letter from your complaint if they can't sort it out with you, as you have been complaining about it since August and wish to take it to OFGEM.

He8764

Thanks NotLucky & mac.d

I followed up again today and apparently the complaints team have finally decided we're at deadlock (I've still not heard from an actual human) and sent a letter out. They've also frozen the bill for now so I can go through that process.

Honestly if someone had called me up and talked with me, and especially offered any form of compromise I would have taken it and moved on; but ignoring and bullying just makes me want to fight them on this, and if everyone just yields when they're being treated so poorly how will management ever get the message that change is needed?

Maybe nothing will come out of it, but going through Ombudsman does seem worth the hassle just for this reason.

I'll update the thread with what happens, because I couldn't find much information on this kind of situation, so hopefully I can at least document it for others.

He8764

A couple weeks late updating on this, but it's now resolved, and I thought it worth updating the thread for posterity.

The deadlock letter which Flow claimed to have sent never arrived, but after 2 weeks that took it up to 8-weeks since the original complaint so I went through Ombudsman.

Rather than accept my proposal to pay at my original tariff rate, Flow ended up offering to just cancel the whole bill, which I accepted as a resolution. That was a surprising outcome after months of them just bullying without trying to talk to me, but I'll take it.

Essmum

Fairly sure all the Flow employees have just been made redundant so whomever wrote your bill off probably didnt care about the £80 ��