CEDR claim. Was I denied boarding or late at destination?

Long story short. I am putting in a claim to CEDR for a flight to Osaka in 2017.

They (CEDR) have informed me this is a "one shot" option and I must get it right.

Problem is it is a tad complicated. But I will keep it simple - looking for advice. Thanks.

Booked on JAL (BA codeshare) London Heathrow to Osaka, via Helsinki.
Flight times were LHR 11.05 - HEL 16.10 Then HEL 17.25 - NAR 10.10 (+ 1 day) then HAN 13.30 - ITM 14.35.
To be clear, this was all booked on one ticket via JAL

Got to London Heathrow on time, to be told by BA staff (it was a BA code-share flight) that the LHR-HEL flight was running late so I would not make my connection.
BA then insisted that I they re-book me on and alternative ANA flight that arrived at ITM at 19.10. This was over 3 hours after I was due to arrive.
I had no choice (apart from abandoning) but to accept this flight. And did, indeed; arrive at 19.10 (4.5 hours late).

BA have not been good with this claim, but let's leave that behind.

I am now going to CEDR, where I am sure I will win, but need your opinion on whether this is...

a) A denied boarding claim,
b) A late arrival claim

Both are possible, but which is the stronger case?

There is another matter of whether I should be pursuing JAL, but all the advice says to approach the operating airline (hence BA).

Thanks for your replies on this in advance.

Ta

Pancho

Comments

  • JPears
    JPears Posts: 5,086 Forumite
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    OK first thing is that you state that your flights were all with JAL, no actual BA flights involved?
    In that case, your claim is agaibnst JAL, not BA.
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  • Pancho
    Pancho Posts: 5 Forumite
    No. The flight from London Heathrow to Helsinki (the one that was delayed and caused the change) was operated by BA.


    I must say, all of the advice everywhere I have looked, is very confusing on flightshare codes and the EU rules.


    If I can sort it out, I will post a definitive reply. But all finger point at BA, as they operated the affected flight.


    If anyone has (casit-iron) proof that this is not the case, then I would be very interested. Especially if this is due to their "real life" experience in claiming, and not just "my mate says"...


    Thanks
  • Pancho
    Pancho Posts: 5 Forumite
    Got to London Heathrow on time, to be told by BA staff (it was a BA code-share flight) that the LHR-HEL flight was running late so I would not make my connection.
    BA then insisted that I they re-book me on and alternative ANA flight that arrived at ITM at 19.10. This was over 3 hours after I was due to arrive.
    I had no choice (apart from abandoning) but to accept this flight. And did, indeed; arrive at 19.10 (4.5 hours late).

    There's the clue in my original post. It's not that difficult to see that it was a BA flight.



    Sorry to sound tetchy, but please do read and understand the posts before commenting...:A
  • JGB1955
    JGB1955 Posts: 3,464 Forumite
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    Your contract was with JAL, not BA. BA were just agents of JAK.
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  • Pancho
    Pancho Posts: 5 Forumite
    Your contract was with JAL, not BA. BA were just agents of JAK.


    Is this a statement of absolute law or an opinion?


    Every other piece of advice I have had, is that BA, as the operator of the delayed flight, are the ones to go after.



    If, indeed, this is the solid legal position, then I will apply to JAL. But, I am advised by many more people, that BA operated the affected flight (even though I booked via JAL).


    If, and I hope you can; you can provide me with evidence for this in the EC regulations, I will submit and pursue my claim through them (JAL). But, it was BA who operated the first leg of the affected flight and BA (Help Desk) who re-routed me on to a later flight.


    It all seems very complicated. And something that others might benefit from being aware of.



    Thanks for your continuing input.
  • Caz3121
    Caz3121 Posts: 15,539 Forumite
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    Pancho wrote: »
    Got to London Heathrow on time, to be told by BA staff (it was a BA code-share flight) that the LHR-HEL flight was running late so I would not make my connection.
    BA then insisted that I they re-book me on and alternative ANA flight that arrived at ITM at 19.10. This was over 3 hours after I was due to arrive.
    I suspect the devil will be in the detail you should find out the reason for the delay of the LHR-HEL flight that led to the pro-active rerouting rather than leaving you stuck in HEL overnight.
  • Alan_Bowen
    Alan_Bowen Posts: 4,848 Forumite
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    So much dodgy advice given as the law. The claim is always against the operating carrier and that certainly wasn't JAL, indeed your second flight from HEL was probably with Finnair and only your last connection was with JAL.

    The issue is whether there is any claim against BA in the first place, I have to say they seemed to do all they could to re-accommodate you on alternative airlines as quickly as possible. Was any reason given for the delay to the BA flight, might be worth checking a site such as EU claim to see if there may have been exceptional circumstances which would void the possibility of a claim.

    There is certainly no denied boarding claim, you could have waited and travelled later on the flight but as noted above you would have been stranded in HEL for 24 hours, so it has to be a delayed arrival and I am sure you are aware that if the delay was between 3-4 hours the amount due is 300 not 600 Euros so check that it was over 4 hours
  • Pancho
    Pancho Posts: 5 Forumite
    Alan_Bowen wrote: »
    So much dodgy advice given as the law. The claim is always against the operating carrier and that certainly wasn't JAL, indeed your second flight from HEL was probably with Finnair and only your last connection was with JAL.

    The issue is whether there is any claim against BA in the first place, I have to say they seemed to do all they could to re-accommodate you on alternative airlines as quickly as possible. Was any reason given for the delay to the BA flight, might be worth checking a site such as EU claim to see if there may have been exceptional circumstances which would void the possibility of a claim.

    There is certainly no denied boarding claim, you could have waited and travelled later on the flight but as noted above you would have been stranded in HEL for 24 hours, so it has to be a delayed arrival and I am sure you are aware that if the delay was between 3-4 hours the amount due is 300 not 600 Euros so check that it was over 4 hours


    Thanks. This is the steer that I have always been given. Strangely, BA have 'stonewalled' a claim, without giving a reason. Pursuing it through CEDR should bring out any defence they have.


    I do appreciate that they proactively re-routed me, but I was then 4+ hours late at Osaka Itami. THis is where the EC regs kick in. No matter whether I have been re-routed or not.
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