Paypal Buyer Protection... Does it stand if I arrange the courier? Any other caveats?

Tunstallstoven

Hi all

I'm hoping ti buy a table on line which I have found through Facebook marketplace. It's large and far away from me so I am going to arrange a courier for collection. I'd like to pay via Paypal so that I am covered should something go wrong (the table is not as described, the seller is not there when the courier goes to collect, etc etc).

So I wondered if there is anything I need to be aware of that might mean I was ineligible for the cover?

One thing that springs to mind is that it is me who is arranging the courier... Would that make any difference? I'm sure I read that it would once, but I cannot find anything now. Perhaps that was more to do with eBay. Or perhaps I dreamt it

Any advice much appreciated.

Cheers

soolin

Seagull27 wrote: »

Hi all

I'm hoping ti buy a table on line which I have found through Facebook marketplace. It's large and far away from me so I am going to arrange a courier for collection. I'd like to pay via Paypal so that I am covered should something go wrong (the table is not as described, the seller is not there when the courier goes to collect, etc etc).

So I wondered if there is anything I need to be aware of that might mean I was ineligible for the cover?

One thing that springs to mind is that it is me who is arranging the courier... Would that make any difference? I'm sure I read that it would once, but I cannot find anything now. Perhaps that was more to do with eBay. Or perhaps I dreamt it

Any advice much appreciated.

Cheers

Any seller that has any idea how PayPal works will refuse to allow a buyer to send their own courier as it can raise all,sorts of issues.

Assuming your seller agrees then you need to trust them to pack it well and be in for collection. If you pay for a courier and item isn't packed to the courier specifications they can refuse to collect, and you won't get your courier money back, the same applies if seller isn't in to hand over the item. If item is damaged en route and you force. Refund via PayPal (assuming you win) the. You will also have to pay all the returns tracked costs.

Lastly you will need to get an accurate boxed weight and size, you can't guess if arranging a courier, unless you are planning to hire a man with a van type of set up.

Tunstallstoven

Hi and thanks for the quick response.

Yes, it would be a man with a van or similar, hired via Shiply. I think it would be a "blanket" service. The table is old, rustic, and worn, so in all honest the odd knock wouldn't be an issue, but something more severe would. So in all, packing is not so much of an issue.

It's actually being bought from a shop who uses Facebook to advertise.

So my main concerns are around the table not being as described or having some other undisclosed defect. Or the seller not being there when they turn up (popped out for lunch or something). Or damage in transit. Those sorts of things.

Hope that helps to clarify and thanks again

soolin

Seagull27 wrote: »

Hi and thanks for the quick response.

Yes, it would be a man with a van or similar, hired via Shiply. I think it would be a "blanket" service. The table is old, rustic, and worn, so in all honest the odd knock wouldn't be an issue, but something more severe would. So in all, packing is not so much of an issue.

It's actually being bought from a shop who uses Facebook to advertise.

So my main concerns are around the table not being as described or having some other undisclosed defect. Or the seller not being there when they turn up (popped out for lunch or something). Or damage in transit. Those sorts of things.

Hope that helps to clarify and thanks again

As above if item is not as described or damaged then PayPal will expect you to return it for a full refund, that refund though would not include your courier fees either way.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Buyer protection in detail here:

https://www.paypal.com/uk/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full#r013

Purchases of items which you collect in person, or arrange to be collected on your behalf (including at a retail point of sale) and which you claim to be Not Received are not covered.

Not as described would be covered (assuming the table is not custom made as purchases of custom made items (unless they are claimed to be Not Received are also excluded) but as above you'd be required to return the goods.

Paypal do offer to cover returns on transactions which you need to activate before it applies:

https://www.paypal.com/uk/webapps/mpp/refunded-returns

but is limited to £15.

Tunstallstoven

Well that's interesting, and very helpful.

I had a live chat with PP last night where they said the opposite. When I explained the situation, they said in all circumstances the burden of proof lies with the seller when it comes to delivery. Even though they might have nothing to do with the courier booking, it would still be up to them to prove the item had been delivered. As such, the rep said they always advise against this with their sellers.

Seems as time moves on that this is more and more common; people working for a company but not understanding their policies and giving out false/wrong information.

Grrrr

soolin

Seagull27 wrote: »

Well that's interesting, and very helpful.

I had a live chat with PP last night where they said the opposite. When I explained the situation, they said in all circumstances the burden of proof lies with the seller when it comes to delivery. Even though they might have nothing to do with the courier booking, it would still be up to them to prove the item had been delivered. As such, the rep said they always advise against this with their sellers.

Seems as time moves on that this is more and more common; people working for a company but not understanding their policies and giving out false/wrong information.

Grrrr

The PayPal response was entirely correct, you just asked them a different question ! The issue of collecting something is a grey area, although PayPal say you as a buyer are not covered in reality with a sale with no 'proof' of circumstances it would end up as a fight between seller saying item was collection only, and a fraudulent buyer insisting postage was implied.

As per my response in post 2 a seller would have to be daft to allow this , if you understand how PayPal works you would know they would need tracking to prove delivery in case you raised a fraudulent claim for INR, I just assumed you were honest and wouldn't be doing that and felt no need to explore that possibility:D if you have a seller willing to allow PayPal and prepared to be available all day for a collection then you have found a rare thing.

However, the situation if item is damaged en route is different, yes seller would need to refund, but PayPal would expect you to return the item at your own cost.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

soolin wrote: »

The PayPal response was entirely correct, you just asked them a different question ! The issue of collecting something is a grey area, although PayPal say you as a buyer are not covered in reality with a sale with no 'proof' of circumstances it would end up as a fight between seller saying item was collection only, and a fraudulent buyer insisting postage was implied.

As per my response in post 2 a seller would have to be daft to allow this , if you understand how PayPal works you would know they would need tracking to prove delivery in case you raised a fraudulent claim for INR, I just assumed you were honest and wouldn't be doing that and felt no need to explore that possibility:D if you have a seller willing to allow PayPal and prepared to be available all day for a collection then you have found a rare thing.

However, the situation if item is damaged en route is different, yes seller would need to refund, but PayPal would expect you to return the item at your own cost.

Paypal and eBay have different policies, Paypal specifically exclude collected items or items collected on the buyers behalf from INR claims.

knightstyle

We had a similar dilemma when buying some chairs. I arranged the delivery but then got the seller to add that cost to his paypal demand for payment. That way we were both covered if something went wrong.

soolin

knightstyle wrote: »

We had a similar dilemma when buying some chairs. I arranged the delivery but then got the seller to add that cost to his paypal demand for payment. That way we were both covered if something went wrong.

The seller though gave up any hope of beating a fraudulent buyer- somit was lucky it was you.