£400 court claim arrived - PCNs never received

buzzerbee

Hello,

Registered keeper recently received a court claim form for a very hefty £400 for 2x PCNs. This came as a complete surprise as PCNs were never received prior to the court claim arriving. The registered keeper has phoned BW Legal and now knows when the PCNs date from.

In October last year on two separate days, 20 minute visits were made to a Premier Parking Solutions Ltd car park. The registered keeper was at the time escorting a learner driver to practice bay parking. At no time was the car left, or the engine turned off. During both 20 minute visits the registered keeper was not driving. The vehicle was reversed in and out of bays a few times - very slowly - and left.

This was apparently captured by ANPR - no PCNs were ever received.

After reading lots of threads here and the newbie stickie, it's understood the AoS must be completed first. But a couple of questions have arisen it would be good to get some feedback on...

Neither the registered keeper nor the learner driver thought to read the terms and conditions displayed in the car park when entering. It was wrongly assumed it was OK to drive in and out and not actually park. Not having looked closely at car park terms before, is it generally agreed that a car moving continuously around a car park still needs to buy a ticket?

As no PCNs were ever received, should this be the main angle of defence? And forget the above issue that the car was never stationary in the car park?

Still astonished a £400 fine has accumulated with absolutely nothing received before the county claim.

Coupon-mad

Please edit the name of the parking company as there is no 'Premier Parking'.

Why would anyone these days use a scammer ANPR car park for parking practice, without covering their numberplate as they left past the cameras?

is it generally agreed that a car moving continuously around a car park still needs to buy a ticket?

No, but ANPR cameras can't tell the difference and this is absolutely not a place to use.

KeithP

What is the Issue Date on the Claim Form?

Did it come from the County Court Business Centre in Northampton, or from somewhere else?

Is the keeper's address correct of the Vehicle's Registration Document (V5c)?

The_Deep

Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams so consider complaining to your MP.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies

buzzerbee

The issue date on the claim form is 13 Sept 19.

It came from Northampton CCBC.

The car has since been scrapped so not sure on the V5C. If the address was wrong post is redirected to current address so PCNs should have been delivered.

The car park is an open, slightly scrubby patch of tarmac mainly used by nearby workers, it is empty after 5pm. It does not give the impression of being an ANPR car park - the cameras are not obvious in any way - never noticed them wherever they are.

KeithP

buzzerbee wrote: »

The issue date on the claim form is 13 Sept 19.

It came from Northampton CCBC.

With a Claim Issue Date of 13th September, you have until Wednesday 2nd October to do the Acknowledgment of Service, but there is nothing to be gained by delaying it. To do the AoS, follow the guidance offered in a Dropbox file linked from post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread. About ten minutes work - no thinking required.

Having done the AoS, you have until 4pm on Wednesday 16th October 2019 to file your Defence.

That's over three weeks away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.


When you are happy with the content, your Defence could be filed via email as suggested here:

Print your Defence.
1. Sign it and date it.
   
2. Scan the signed document back in and save it as a pdf.
   
3. Send that pdf as an email attachment to CCBCAQ@Justice.gov.uk
   
4. Just put the claim number and the word Defence in the email title, and in the body of the email something like 'Please find my Defence attached'.
   
5. Log into MCOL after a few days to see if the Claim is marked "defence received". If not chase the CCBC until it is.
   
6. Do not be surprised to receive an early copy of the Claimant's Directions Questionnaire, they are just trying to keep you under pressure.
   
7. Wait for your DQ from the CCBC, or download one from the internet, and then re-read post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread to find out exactly what to do with it.

beamerguy

How do BWLegal account for £400, what is the breakdown ???

buzzerbee

Amount claimed - £333.44*
Court fee - £35
Legal rep's cost - £50
Total - £418.44

*Claimant's claim is £200 plus statutory interest at 8% annum (£13.44) plus £120 contractual costs

beamerguy

buzzerbee wrote: »

Amount claimed - £333.44*
Court fee - £35
Legal rep's cost - £50
Total - £418.44

*Claimant's claim is £200 plus statutory interest at 8% annum (£13.44) plus £120 contractual costs

Of course, the BWLegal common scam 2 x £60 which they know this is not allowed and Abuse of Process
This BWLegal scam has been noted by the courts and the result is

Abuse of Process ... District Judge tells BWLegal
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6014081/abuse-of-process-district-judge-tells-bwlegal

See post#14 by coupon-mad and the text which will form your defence

It should also be noted that you request BWLegal to tell the court on what authority do they have to circumvent the law, POFA2012 and the courts own double recovery rules.

You do not owe the fake £120 add-on ..... AND THE COURTS ALREADY KNOW THIS

buzzerbee

All very useful, thanks for the advice.

AoS completed just now.

Draft defence here, should anyone wish to take a look and comment...

________________________________________
DEFENCE
________________________________________

1. The Defendant denies that the Claimant is entitled to relief in the sum claimed, or at all.

2. The facts are that the vehicle, registration XXXXX, of which the Defendant is the registered keeper, was observed entering XXXXX carpark on XXXXX at XXXXX and leaving at XXXXX, and again observed entering on XXXXX at XXXXX and leaving at XXXXX.

3. The Particulars of Claim state that full details of Parking Charge Notices (PCNs) were delivered to the Defendant. The Defendant received no such notices. The Claim Form dated 13th September 2019 was the first instance the Defendant was made aware of the Claim. Had PCNs been received immediate action would have been taken by the Defendant.

4. The Claimant has failed to identify a Cause of Action, and is simply offering a menu of choices. As such, the Claim fails to comply with Civil Procedure Rule 16.4, or with Civil Practice Direction 16, paras. 7.3 to 7.5. Further, the particulars of the claim do not meet the requirements of Practice Direction 16 7.5 as there is nothing which specifies how the terms were breached.

5. Due to the lack of particulars, it is unclear as to what legal basis the Claim is brought, whether for breach of contract, contractual liability, or trespass. However, it is denied that the Defendant, or any driver of the vehicle, entered into any contractual agreement with the Claimant, whether express, implied, or by conduct.

6. The Claimant’s vehicle was allegedly observed by the Claimant’s ANPR camera entering and exiting the carpark. The Defendant’s vehicle was at no point ‘parked’ during the two aforementioned periods. The Defendant’s vehicle was in near constant motion and no ‘parking’ occurred. Furthermore, for the majority of the two aforementioned periods the Defendant was not driving the vehicle.

7. The Particulars of Claim (PoC) on the Claim Form refer to PCNs that were not received by the Defendant. The PoC do not state the basis of any purported liability for these charges, in that they do not state what the terms of parking were, or in what way they are alleged to have been breached.

8. Further and in the alternative, it is denied that the Claimant's signage sets out the terms in a sufficiently clear manner which would be capable of binding any reasonable person reading them whilst in motion.

9. The terms on the Claimant's signage are also displayed in a text size which is too small and therefore illegible to a driver whilst a vehicle is in motion. It is, therefore, denied that the Claimant's signage is capable of creating a legally binding contract, particularly whilst a vehicle is in motion, and is therefore unable to enter into a contract with the Claimant.

10. The Claimant is put to strict proof that it has sufficient proprietary interest in the land, or that it has the necessary authorisation from the landowner to issue parking charge notices, and to pursue payment by means of litigation.

11. The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, Schedule 4, at Section 4(5) states that the maximum sum that may be recovered from the keeper is the charge stated on the Notice to Keeper, in this case £100. The claim includes an additional £60, for which no calculation or explanation is given, and which appears to be an attempt at double recovery.

12. In summary, it is the Defendant's position that the Claim discloses no cause of action, is without merit, and has no real prospect of success. Accordingly, the Court is invited to strike out the claim of its own initiative, using its case management powers pursuant to CPR 3.4.

I believe the facts contained in this Defence are true.

Name
Signature
Date

beamerguy

You have NOT added coupon-mad's text ???

Abuse of Process ... District Judge tells BWLegal
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6014081/abuse-of-process-district-judge-tells-bwlegal

See post#14 by coupon-mad and the text which will form your defence

Leave no doubt in the Judge's mind about ABUSE OF PROCESS