1 Week, 1 Retail Park, 7+ NTK's!

Dbear75

Hi,

I've come back from my holiday to find a huge number of NTK's due to overstay at a Retail Park.

• The Retail Park is operating in accordance with IPC
• All of the overstay Durations were under 20 minutes.
• I was just sent NTK's no parking notices so didn't know I was doing anything wrong until I returned to all of these letters
• I assumed the time limit would start when I was actually parked and out of the car! I've unfortunately had a recent ACL tear in my knee so it takes me a while to get in and out sometimes.
• I am currently still within the 14 day appeal period

Is there any way I can successfully appeal? I would even be happy to pay the first penalty charge but the other 348230984 is a bit excessive given I clearly did not know I was doing anything wrong.

Sorry if I haven't communicated this in the right way or place, I have read the rules but maybe my vision was a little blurred by rage, worry and frustration. I'm a carer with a low budget for life, so would welcome any advice on dealing with this.:(

BrownTrout

Who issued the tickets

MistyZ

More information needed if you're to get advice on this, especially which parking company it is.

What were the 7 exact overstays and what was the time limit?

Sounds like signage wasn't great - can you take a look at the car park on Google Street View to re-examine the signage in terms of positioning, clarity etc.? If you were completely unaware of the time limit and it's not on the NTK you should be able to see it that way.

You could have grounds for a landowner complaint, depending somewhat on circumstances. Was money spent at the retail park on each occasion?

Dbear75

Thank you for your responses.

So the Issuer was Wembley Retail Park UKPPO. On some of the occasions money was spent but not all. I can contact Lidl as this is where I sometimes spent money on about 4 of the occasions.

Coupon-mad

Search the forum for Wembley Retail Park UKPPO to see what success people have had before, when trying retailer complaints there, and who to contact to complain.

MistyZ

I think the landowner might be Quintain. Massive company I presume but do not let that intimidate you! Most important thing is that they do have a contact number on their website.

I'd suggest complaining to Quintain ASAP, if after 3 or 4 days they have not responded, complain to Lidl too. If Quintain subcontract land management to another company they may tell you who that is.

With landowner complaints concentrate on composing a humdinger.

Something was going on here, you don't sound like a pig-headed 'I'll park where I like' type. Do not mention who was driving, say 'we parked, the driver did this & that'. But very clearly outline exactly why things happened as they did. I've seen a post here somewhere which stated that the signage is appalling. Do look at signage on street view and have a good think about it. If you completely missed the terms and conditions because signage was sparse, very high up etc. etc. then tell the landowner that.

If there were other, good reasons why you overstayed, explain them. Clarity is vital. Don't sound self-pitying - be factual with an undertone of outrage! But, also, if you really enjoyed this retail park, say so. (For the complaint to Lidl say something nice about them, if that's how you feel).

Outline how much was spent. For Lidl, include copies of receipts if you have them. If time was spent browsing for future purchases, that is relevant.

Include a copy of a note from your GP confirming your recent injury and its effects too.

Be real, be angry, be polite, be clear that you are strongly requesting that they cancel these PCNs. Just do it.

Dbear75

Thanks! That was the first thing I did before posting but as expected there hasn't been a case where someone is trying to appeal more than one NTK.

However there is one post of success relating to overstay so I do wonder if I can apply some of this to my appeal: forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5842005&highlight=wembley+retail+park+ukppo#16

Do I have to appeal every individual NTK?
Would I have to copy and paste each appeal since it's all for overstay (18 minutes and under)
Should I speak to the UKPPO directly? Or the IAS?
Do you think there'd be any leniency in the fact that I clearly didn't know I was doing anything wrong because all the NTK's came at the same time?

Thank you again for your guidance. I will try to compose some kind of appeal..

Dbear75

MistyZ wrote: »

I think the landowner might be Quintain. Massive company I presume but do not let that intimidate you! Most important thing is that they do have a contact number on their website.

I'd suggest complaining to Quintain ASAP, if after 3 or 4 days they have not responded, complain to Lidl too. If Quintain subcontract land management to another company they may tell you who that is.

With landowner complaints concentrate on composing a humdinger.

Something was going on here, you don't sound like a pig-headed 'I'll park where I like' type. Do not mention who was driving, say 'we parked, the driver did this & that'. But very clearly outline exactly why things happened as they did. I've seen a post here somewhere which stated that the signage is appalling. Do look at signage on street view and have a good think about it. If you completely missed the terms and conditions because signage was sparse, very high up etc. etc. then tell the landowner that.

If there were other, good reasons why you overstayed, explain them. Clarity is vital. Don't sound self-pitying - be factual with an undertone of outrage! But, also, if you really enjoyed this retail park, say so. (For the complaint to Lidl say something nice about them, if that's how you feel).

Outline how much was spent. For Lidl, include copies of receipts if you have them. If time was spent browsing for future purchases, that is relevant.

Include a copy of a note from your GP confirming your recent injury and its effects too.

Be real, be angry, be polite, be clear that you are strongly requesting that they cancel these PCNs. Just do it.

Thank you for this. We will reach out to Quintain. Unfortunately we don't have Lidl receipts to hand but maybe we can use banking statements to prove that. I'm not actually sure where the signage is but I will take a look at Google Maps and reference that in my complaint.

The_Deep

You may struggle with this. I suggest that you enlist the help of your MP.

Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies

Dbear75

Ok so I've looked at the successful appeals I have seen and had a look through the Protection of Freedoms Act and the IPC code of conduct and I am considering an appeal as follows (incomplete):
________________________________________
I submit this appeal on the main basis that the NTK issued by UK Parking Patrol Office is not compliant with their acredited operator, International Parking Community (IPC)
I as the registered keeper appeal this Parking Charge Notice (PCN) further under the following points:

1. The NTK (Notice to the keeper) does not comply with, schedule 4 of!The Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, particularly:

[please refer to the attachments titled [Image Evidence]

a.!Section 9 (2) (a) states; !!!![Reference Image Evidence];specify the vehicle, the relevant land on which it was parked and the period of parking to which the notice relates.!!![Reference Image Evidence];

i.!It does not state anywhere on the NTK the period of parking the driver stayed.

ii.!The times given are for when the car was moving underneath the cameras and as such could not possibly be considered parked, therefore there is still not a period of parking stated, as required to hold the keeper liable.

b. Section 9 (2) (f) states; warn the keeper that if, after the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice is given!!![Reference Image Evidence];

!!!8216;(i)the amount of the unpaid parking charges specified under paragraph (d) has not been paid in full, and

(ii)the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver,

the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid.!!![Reference Image Evidence];

i.!In the NTK received to myself by!UKPPO!(UK Parking Patrol Office) states; !!![Reference Image Evidence];Please be warned: that if after the 28 days beginning with the day after that on which this Notice is given (i) the amount of the unpaid Parking Charge specified in this Notice has not been paid in full, and (ii) we do not know the both the name of the driver and a current address for services for the driver, we will have the right to recover the parking charge amount that remains unpaid from the driver of the vehicle.!!![Reference Image Evidence];!UKPPO!have not complied to have the keeper liable.!

[Please refer to IPC Code of Practice;]!!

i.!Under, !!!;Part B, 15. Grace Periods!!!8217;; It states!!!;

! [Reference NTK! Evidence]! ;15.1 - Drivers should be allowed a sufficient amount of time to!park!and read any signs so they may make an informed decision as to whether or not to remain on the site.!!!8217;

! ![Reference NTK! Evidence]! ;15.2 - Drivers must be allowed a minimum period of 10 minutes to leave a site after a pre-paid or permitted period of parking has expired [Reference NTK! Evidence]

Where 15.1 is referring to the point of entry and 15.2 referring to point of exit. According to the NTK issued by!UKPPO!the driver overstayed! 18 minutes, 16 minutes twice, 12 minutes,!Going by the!UKPPO!Accredited Operator, IPC, Code of Conduct 15.2 (stated above), giving the allowed 10 minute grace period brings the apparent Exceeded Maximum Stay Period; down to 8 minutes, 6 minutes twice, and 2 minutes which is justified by 15.1. Therefore,!UKPPO!have not issued the NTK in accordance to the IPC Code of Conduct.!!
____________________________--

Essentially referencing the fact that the grace period was no considered, sufficient time wasn't considered between entering and parking and there is nothing that highlights when the vehicle is and was actually parked - the only evidence displayed is the vehicle entering and leaving the premises.

Thoughts?

KeithP

But you can't just knock of the ten minute grace periods and say that overstays of '8 minutes, 6 minutes twice, and 2 minutes' are within the grace periods so there was no transgression.

That doesn't make sense.


Why aren't you using the already written for you blue text template appeal to be found in post #1 of the NEWBIES thread?

Send it without change - no additions or alterations needed.

Send it as the keeper.


Have you complained Lidl yet?

Have you looked at other Wembley Retail Park threads?