POPLA help - PCN whilst giving blood

Bauxite

Hi all,

Firstly, thanks to everyone contributing to this fantastic forum, I've had a read of a number of posts including the NEWBIE thread.
I have already used some MSE templates for my initial appeal, which Smart Parking has rejected so I am looking for some further guidance please r.e POPLA appeals.

Background:
Parked in a local Community Centre car park to give blood during an NHS donation drive. Have done this 6 times prior with no issue, car park was always free with no conditions other than you had to be using the centre.

Received a PCN from Smart, turns out the centre has within the last month changed policy and you must now input your car reg as you enter the building. Signage inside the venue was not clear at all, considering the recent change and I did not see any tablet and no mention of the change by any staff. Went back to the car park and signage in the car park IS visible, but I wasn't looking for it at 7pm in a car park I've used multiple times for the same purpose prior.

Landowners refuse to assist so no hope there.

I have a custom written letter from NHS Blood who confirm I was at this community centre for the purpose of giving blood and confirm the time of my appointment to coincide with the cars stay but I'm not sure if I can pick holes in the signage etc of the venue or any other technicality.

Can anyone point me in the right direction of any POPLA appeal wordings for my scenario - that I was at this centre and using their car park solely to give blood and have proof of this or is this type of mitigating circumstance not useful at all? Or should I try including some of the more common appeal wordings even though it might not be relevant?

Thanks very much

ShakeItOff

Welcome!

Urgh, that is a really rubbish thing to happen when you're donating.

There is quite a bit on this board about changeover periods, from one operator to the other - you might be well placed to look for those. I'm not sure how useful the blood donation thing is, but you could always add it in. You might also want to write to Blood Donors (can't remember what they're called these days!), to inform them of what has happened. They may also be able to give you the arrival and leaving times for you too, which could be useful.

With the POPLA appeal, ready post #3 of the NEWBIES thread, and then post up your draft when you're ready.

Half_way

Who owns/runs this community centre?

From my understanding what a new parking regime is night in there is supposed to be a grace period to allow for its introduction.

What did you say to the community centre?
What was there reply?

Bauxite

Hi ShakeItOff -
Thanks, I will look into what you've mentioned r.e changeover periods. I already received a decent letter from NHS Blood confirming how long an appointment usually takes and the date and time of my appointment which covers my stay but maybe they do have a computerised record of my donation as well which could help!
I've had a look at the newbies thread r.e POPLA but I'm a bit unsure what angle to take considering my circumstances. (mainly me not expecting the car parking policy to have changed and not looking for car park signage). I'll continue to read up though!


Hi Half_way -
The centre is managed and maintained by a Church Trust registered with the Charity Commission, of which I can supply the name if it's of use. Contact details of their management were not easy to track down, the centre is closed often when not in use for a particular purpose. When I did finally speak to a Trustee they were of little help.
I explained that I was using their car park for the sole purpose of giving blood and that I had a letter from NHS Blood who had kindly confirmed my appointment time and date. The Trustee went on to say that they had signed everything over to Smart Parking due to people from a nearby gym misusing their land and that they could not intervene in any way. I also suggested that their tablet inside the venue was clearly not prominent enough and no staff inside mentioned it but they believe it was clear enough. I've not since been able to get into the venue to look at where the tablet's placed.
My appointment was in early August and it appears this new policy only came into force sometime in July.

Thanks

Half_way

Who appointed smart parking?
who owns the land upon which the car park sits?


If the trust has done the deed, and its the trusts land, then you have a good opportunity to put the frighteners up the committee and not without good reason, if the trust committee gets an understanding of what they have done by allowing smart to act as their agents, then the trustees could be in some serious trouble - just hope that for their sake they have trustee indemnity insurance cover.

KeithP

Is there any mention on the signs in the car park about having to input one's registration number into a tablet?

Any contract is formed at the time of parking, based on the signs in place at that time. Having parked the car and walked inside the venue, they cannot then add another term - one must use the tablet - to an already existing contract.

Bauxite

Hi Half_way -
It would appear the Trust are definitely the ones who have appointment Smart Parking and as far as I can tell the Trust owns the land. I did try to inform them that Smart Parking have a horrendous reputation and I was surprised a community centre based in an old church would have appointed them but the Trustee did not appear fussed in that respect. I don't think any further direct contact with them will have any impact but do you have any suggestions?

Hi KeithP -
I went back to the car park and the signage does say 'Patrons please validate your full and correct vehicle registration mark on the tablet provided'. It doesn't say where the tablet is though, at first I thought it meant it was in the car park! Unfortunately I didn't see the signage at the time.
Do you have any idea if POPLA will take into account the proof I have for being there, or is that not strong enough?

Thanks

Coupon-mad

None of the above matters as long as you have not said who was driving. Smart don't use POFA PCNs, so it's a win at POPLA as long as you explain what the omissions in wording are, and don't blab about who parked!

Easy to find any case to copy from by searching the forum for Smart POPLA POFA.

MistyZ

'Dear Trustees,
I am disappointed at your apparent lack of concern regarding the parking charge notice I received while donating blood in your premises.
I understand that, as the landowners, you do indeed have the wherewithal to cancel this PCN. I must again request that you do so. I parked in good faith in order to donate a precious, life-saving substance from my body. This is something I do willingly and, indeed, had anticipated continuing to do for as long as is possible. However your inaction and lack of concern for my situation makes me question whether I should continue to donate my blood.
One thing is certain, I will not be returning to this particular centre if my latest visit results in a ludicrous surcharge of £x due to a very confusing parking arrangement.
Please understand that I parked in good faith and would have paid to park had the current arrangement been more clearly explained. Why were all donors not alerted to the change in parking conditions as soon as they arrived?
Etc. etc. etc.' (don't stop there!)


(I have had a life-saving blood transfusion in the past. This makes me MAD.)

Half_way

Most, if not all of the community centre/village hall/scout/social club committees that I have been involved with on one way or another have been scared of their own shadows, especially if something involves a little bit of risk that could come back to bite a trustee/committee member.


So you will need to remind them that they, the trust and the trustees are jointly and severally liable for the actions of the parking company, that is if the parking company steps out of line, the trust could be held liable, and the trustees personally liable, so if there is a breach of GDPR caused by a double dip event then potentially a trustee could be held personally liable.


Then you need to remind them that private parking is un regulated, the trade associations are not regulatory bodies, and make up the rules to suit their own members



Add all that together and they should run a mile


If i was invovled with a committee in a situation wher a PPC was infesting their car park, i would be looking at ways to nullify the PPCs operations, from covering the cameras ( in such a way as not to damage them) to removing the power suply somehow, upto a time when the PPC can be removed.
As for the parking issues, these can easily be solved with a Gate/fencing, signs and a lock.
One of the placesi was involved with wnated to get a PPC to solve a parking issue ( in reality is was just a few cars ) the solution was a gate, and padlock and signs stating the gates will be locked on Tuesday nights after Scouts at 9:30pm, Wednesday at 9pm after Yoga, Thursdya 8pm after knitting club and not opened up again until the following morning at 7:30am for the pre school todlers and tidlers ( and so on)

Bauxite

Hi Half_way and MistyZ -
Thanks for the advice, I have emailed them for the last time, CC'ing in my local MP for good measure. Shall see if they budge!

Hi Coupon_mad -
Thanks for your input. Probably a silly question so please forgive me, but what exactly constitutes an admittal of driving?
In my original appeal I addressed myself as the registered keeper, but I did attach the letter from NHS Blood confirming my appointment time etc. Would this fluff up my POPLAR appeal/would you recommend not including this document in the POPLAR appeal at all? If I have messed that appeal route up, can you suggest any other alternative angle? Thanks very much