Back pay council tax due to council mistake

00ec25

C_AC wrote: »

thanks everyone for the comments.

in response this is the issue as CIS stated - 'One issue would be that if they paid it to the council and then got the money back then they've probably, in reliance of that, spent the money.' We were happily paying council tax on the property, and then after an inspection by the council got issued a refund and were told it was an HMO and therefore the landlord's decision.

We have now all vacated the tenancy as of the end of August 2018 so this is more than a year ago, some of us have situations that have changed drastically (ie. a member of the household has just gone into full time education).

in response to G_M
How many floors? There were two floors
Who lived there? Four people who met on Spareroom (not one family unit)
How many flats? It was an old council estate in London so not sure of the number, but definitely more than 40

We did sign one joint contract however.

My main question isn't necessarily if it was an hmo, but rather if there is any advice on the council making a mistake on this and therefore how liable are we to pay this back after having left the property more than a year ago when an inspection took place and the property was deemed an HMO by the council?

I completely appreciate that council tax needs to be paid, however this has put immense financial strain on some members of the property when a year ago we were in a position to pay this.

sorry but have ignored the only relevant points in the posts above

you had a JOINT tenancy. You were not occupying only part of the building (ie you rented a bedroom only in a property where the common parts such as kitchen, bathroom etc were shared with other occupants who rented their own bedrooms). So it is NOT a council tax HMO
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1992/551/made
Houses in multiple occupation, etc
Class C a dwelling inhabited by persons who do not constitute a single household, each of whom either–
(a) is a tenant of, or has a licence to occupy, part only of the dwelling; or
(b) has a licence to occupy but is not liable (whether alone or jointly with other persons) to pay rent or a licence fee in respect of the dwelling as a whole.

On that basis, statute law says the tenants are jointly and severally liable for the CT under the hierarchy of liability.
You cannot dispute that fact, it is the law
Thus the council has no discretion whatsoever to apply any other outcome. You are liable.

you can argue with your LL and the council until the cows home over who misled who with the info that caused the council to issue a refund in the belief it was not an HMO.
You state the council "inspected" - which dept of the council was that? The council tax people or the housing people? They do not share info so if inspected for possible HMO under the Housing Act (no of floors etc) the "council" decision that is was not an HMO was correct, but had no bearing on council tax. And Housing would not inform Council Tax as it is irrelevant to CT.

what documentary evidence do you have to show WHY the "council" (which dept?) judged is was an HMO after their inspection? Were you there for it personally? What was said and can you prove it? Was the tenancy agreement sent to the council?

it is perfectly possible for it to be an HMO under the Housing Act but NOT be an HMO under Council Tax law. By the sounds of it that is the reality of your situation, you were a collection of individual "households" not an homogeneous family unit, so under Housing it would be an HMO, but not for tax purposes.

CIS

Quick correction, not that it alters anything here. The 1992 liability for owners legislation was re-worded and is now.

a dwelling which
(a) was originally constructed or subsequently adapted for occupation by persons who do not constitute a single household; or
(b) is inhabited by a person who, or by two or more persons each of whom either--
(i) is a tenant of, or has a licence to occupy, part only of the dwelling; or
(ii) has a licence to occupy, but is not liable (whether alone or jointly with other persons) to pay rent or a licence fee in respect of, the dwelling as a whole

I would agree that it sounds like it is not a council tax HMO under part (b), even if it is a Housing Act HMO. Unless you want to try and argue under the far more obscure part (a) - which I've very rarely seen used in practice and never had to argue (if it meets either (a) or (b) it would be a council tax HMO).

C_AC

Ok thanks for your help, very useful!

The council tax department inspected the flat, and they sent an email as well as a refund for previously paid council tax as they deemed the property an HMO then.

We have disputed on grounds of an admin error from the council but if we have to pay, we have to pay!

CIS

Admin error is very unlikely to get it written off - in nearly 2 decades I've seen it perhaps 2 or 3 times where any significant amount has been written off on these sort of grounds.

C_AC

Well it's worth a try at least! Thanks for the help

diggingdude

i would focus on trying to get a fair repayment plan due to their mistakes than getting it written off

ethank

You used the council's services but don't want to pay for them because of a mistake they made. Just pay what you owe.

C_AC

@ethank There's really no need to be rude. If you read the whole thread I've stated several times the financial affect this has had on members of the household due to situations changing since living in the property. This isn't something you can prepare for when it's happened over a year after you have vacated the property due to not being able to afford living in the area. And to note: we were paying council tax on the property, and were prepared to for the whole tenancy, before the council refunded us the money we had paid as well as deeming the property an HMO.

Find something better to do with your Saturday than offering mean comments on an internet forum where people are asking for genuine advice about money- a subject that is incredibly stressful.

elmer

In my council, we had just rebanded someone upwards 2 bands back to 2007, needless to say the bill is rather large, and there has been a lot of noise from the Council tax payer, so the extra amount has been written off.
Perhaps if you contact one of the councillors, they may be able to advise you on whether or not your council may write off your bill, or just keep writing complaints further up the chain of command, I don't think you've got anything to lose.

elmer