Back pay council tax due to council mistake

C_AC

I lived in a property 2017/2018 and during this time, we were initially paying council tax. However, the council enquired about a tour of the property to ensure it wasn't a House in Multiple Occupancy (HMO). After their inspection, the council deemed the flat a HMO and we were refunded any council tax we paid, and this in turn made us exempt from paying throughout the tenancy.

Today I received an email from the same council updating us that the landlords had disputed this claim and we must back pay the council tax owned for this period.

Can I please get any advice on this? The contract ended at the beginning of August 2018 and a lot has changed since then in terms of my own financial stability as Im now a student. We would be more than happy to have paid the council tax when we were initially paying it, but the backdated amount is huge and the council made a mistake (which Im not even sure they did as the flat ticks all the boxes as a HMO).

Any advice would be much appreciated

csgohan4

LL has disputed, did they win or still in process, can you try and negotiate to pay back once the case is finalised or a payment plan???

00ec25

either it is an HMO and CT is the legal liability of the LL, or it isn't and legal liability is yours as the occupier at the time

there really is nothing else to it since it is a matter of statute law.

If you are unable to communicate with the council to establish the basis of their decision and contest it with whatever evidence you have of it being an HMO then there is nothing else you can do

dispute or pay up. Your choice...

CIS

Today I received an email from the same council updating us that the landlords had disputed this claim and we must back pay the council tax owned for this period.

The council have reversed their decision, they are entitled to do so and you are entitled to challenge the decision if you believe it is incorrect. The determination of whether or not it is a council tax HMO is made by the council on the basis of the descriptor set in legislation - that's not to say the council have applied legislation correctly though (they often don't).

What was the tenancy situation regarding the property ?

pramsay13

Surely if the liability wasn't with the tenant but with the landlord then the rent would just be increased to cover the council tax so it's not that you didn't owe it at all, just that you would owe it to the landlord instead.

CIS

pramsay13 wrote: »

Surely if the liability wasn't with the tenant but with the landlord then the rent would just be increased to cover the council tax so it's not that you didn't owe it at all, just that you would owe it to the landlord instead.

One issue would be that if they paid it to the council and then got the money back then they've probably, in reliance of that, spent the money.

The council then said it was the landlord who was liable, so if the landlord, didn't have something in the original contract to reclaim the monies then he would foot the bill himself (and he likely hadn't charged a higher rent as he expected the tenants being liable).


They've then reversed the decision and sent the tenants a bill asking for the money, which they've probably spent, back.

Ultimately if it is a council tax HMO then the tenants win as the council tax bill is the landlord's and he's unlikely to be able to recover it from the tenants.

bouicca21

Surely the first step is to find out on what grounds the landlord disputed the decision that it was an HMO? And how that stacks up against reality?

G_M

bouicca21 wrote: »

Surely the first step is to find out on what grounds the landlord disputed the decision that it was an HMO? And how that stacks up against reality?

The legal basis for the decision has been explained by others above.


Whether the legal basis has been accurately followed is unclear (as evidenced by the change of decision. o for us to comment, it would help to understand the set upin the building.


How large/how many floors?
Who lived there? How many people and 'family units'?
How many 'flats'?
etc


I'm no HMP expert but it is questionslike that which determneifa property is an HMO, sounderstanding that is the first step to us being able to judge is a further appeal might help.

CIS

There are 2 different primary ways that a property can be a council tax HMO (which is different to that used for Housing Act purposes) - the most common being based on the tenancies of the property.


What were the tenancies on the property ? Where they for the entire property or a room only ?

CIS

bouicca21 wrote: »

Surely the first step is to find out on what grounds the landlord disputed the decision that it was an HMO? And how that stacks up against reality?

In most cases we don't even need to know that, it is the actual situation that defines whether or not it is a council tax HMO. If the OP can be clarify then it's likely that it can be confirmed or not.

C_AC

thanks everyone for the comments.

in response this is the issue as CIS stated - 'One issue would be that if they paid it to the council and then got the money back then they've probably, in reliance of that, spent the money.' We were happily paying council tax on the property, and then after an inspection by the council got issued a refund and were told it was an HMO and therefore the landlord's decision.

We have now all vacated the tenancy as of the end of August 2018 so this is more than a year ago, some of us have situations that have changed drastically (ie. a member of the household has just gone into full time education).

in response to G_M
How many floors? There were two floors
Who lived there? Four people who met on Spareroom (not one family unit)
How many flats? It was an old council estate in London so not sure of the number, but definitely more than 40

We did sign one joint contract however.

My main question isn't necessarily if it was an hmo, but rather if there is any advice on the council making a mistake on this and therefore how liable are we to pay this back after having left the property more than a year ago when an inspection took place and the property was deemed an HMO by the council?

I completely appreciate that council tax needs to be paid, however this has put immense financial strain on some members of the property when a year ago we were in a position to pay this.