BW Legal Defence Thread - WS Stage - Court Date < 2 weeks

JP26

Very helpful link thank you, so far my proposed main defence points are:

- Abuse of Process from BW Legal
- Primacy of Contract For BPS issuing tickets on the land ( after checking the lease and tenancy agreement)
- Incorrect and non-compliant signs
and obviously the fact I hold a permit...

Le_Kirk

^^^^ PLUS proof of landowner authority.

Half_way

JP26 wrote: »

Very helpful link thank you, so far my proposed main defence points are:

- Abuse of Process from BW Legal
- Primacy of Contract For BPS issuing tickets on the land ( after checking the lease and tenancy agreement)
- Incorrect and non-compliant signs
and obviously the fact I hold a permit...

The Fact that you own a permit is irrelevant, and undermines your second point about primacy of contract, if you are using that, or planning to you should change it to the fact that you have only displayed a permit, at your own discretion and solely as a courtesy as you are not bound in any means to display a permit as per the priacy of contract

JP26

Understood, so primacy of contract is what I need to get to the bottom of by looking at the lease/tenancy agreement. If those documents don't mention permits then I may as well use my permit card as an ice scraper instead.

If the lease/tenancy DO mention something along the lines of residents are permitted to park so long as a permit is displayed clearly on the windscreen blah blah bah' then I'll need to put more weight onto the other defence points raised:

1. Abuse of Process from BW Legal ( Additional £60 legal costs on top of the £100 charge)
2. Incorrect and non-compliant signs
3. Maybe proof of landowner authority - but unsure how to find this out.

I may draft out two defences, one weighted on the primacy of contract and another one as a backup weighted on points 1 and 2 above, in case I don't get a copy of the lease or tenancy agreement. Does this sound reasonable or?

Half_way

As you have probably figured out the lease/tenancy is key here, assuming you are in the clear.....
Get in touch with the managemetn company, tell them whats going on, and that their agents are aggressively pursuing you over this, tell them that appointing an unregulated aggressive parking company ( neither the BPA limited, or the IPC are regulatory authorities) who are attempting to take away a pre existing right and then charge you for it is completely unreasonable ( this should nullify any clause about bringing in reasonable regulations)

Remind them that they are responsible for the actions of their agents ( the parking company) and then ask them if they support their agents in aggressively pursuing you, or they as principal would prefer these parking charges to be dropped

JP26

Thanks Half_way, still waiting on lease details and hoping to get the tenancy from my friend who is a resident there to read through tomorrow.

I did complain to the flat estate manager back in April, and received a blunt response that they do not get involved with parking fines and to take it up with Bristol Parking Services, oh so helpful...

Half_way

These are not fines, however the managemetn company is jointly and severally liable for the actions of its agents, a fact that some places try and wiggle out of.


The Liable for the actions of their agents fact is something that you may wish to remind them of, plus you could also add in a little bit about compliance with GDPR which has introduced personal liability, where an individual within a company/organisation can be held personally liable for any breaches, such as processing personal data without just cause, inaccurate data and so on




And one more thing, keep the managemetn company in the loop at all times, let them see this thread, this is the link https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6046498/bw-legal-defence-thread-ws-stage-court-date-2-weeks

JP26

That's exactly what the management company have been doing, refusing to get involved with any parking conflicts. They have confirmed over email that vehicle in question is a valid permit holder at the location of the PCN.

I've read through my friend's tenancy agreement and no mention of parking at all. Still trying to track down a copy of the lease, so I can form the rest of my defence. If I don't have a copy by Weds/Thurs then I'll have to rely on the other defence points.

JP26

So I've heard back from my friend's landlord, she states there is nothing in the lease that's relevant to parking (good news) although I'm waiting for her to reply to my request to send the whole lease over as I'll need to quote this in my defence.

Given I have to submit by Monday the 23rd ( ideally Friday to be safe) and without the lease to quote yet , I'm going to have to rely on other defence points mainly: abuse of process and possibly landowner authority.

My questions are:

1. If I am provided with the lease at a later date, can I add this to my defence before the court hearing? Can I mention in my defence that the lease makes no reference to third party parking companies being able to impose new T&Cs on permit holders? ( Even though I haven't seen the lease yet and can't quote it)

2. Apart from the BW legal abuse of process, and landowner authority ( I can't confirm this for sure), I'm not sure what other defence points I can rely on. The signage seems mostly compliant with the IPC guidelines apart from the font is a little small ( picture above). Can I argue that I am a valid permit holder and complied with the T&Cs on-site when entering the car park, only for the permit to fall off during? ( although this defence point would link to ME being the driver)


Thanks again all.

Coupon-mad

They have confirmed over email that vehicle in question is a valid permit holder at the location of the PCN.

That's good, have you forwarded that to the other side (BW Legal) in the interests of resolving the dispute, and so you can point to how reasonable you were, to try to save the court's time and costs all round?

Even if they know, show them the email so there is no debate that they saw it.

I'm not sure what other defence points I can rely on. The signage seems mostly compliant with the IPC guidelines apart from the font is a little small ( picture above). Can I argue that I am a valid permit holder and complied with the T&Cs on-site when entering the car park, only for the permit to fall off during?

Is there anything in the IPC CoP about a PPC having to check all windows before issuing a PCN for no display of permit or ticket? The BPA CoP has such a line and I am wondering if the IPC CoP does too, because if the permit was on the driver's seat they can't say it wasn't seen at all.