Whistle blowing (PIP)

Lanzarote1938

I would report my suspicions to the DWP, with some evidence like photos or newspaper reports and leave it to them to investigate. Benefit fraud will continue if everyone turns a blind eye/none of my business while taxpayers are potentially being robbed.

sportsarb

Report your suspicions, if you wish, unlike others I wouldn't suggest reading up on PIP as there is literally nothing to be gained from you doing so. Even if you know the conditions of PIP you don't know exactly what this family member has put on their claim, even if they have stated why they are on it, the actual truth could be very different because not everyone wants to be honest about their benefit claims for both benign and malignant reasons.

If you really believe its wrong, report them, that is the extent of your responsibility in the matter. Various decision makers for departments are then responsible for deciding whether it meets thresholds.

Muttleythefrog

Stop_Watch wrote: »

I think they should employ bounty hunters to chase the tip offs and hunt down the fakers / over exaggerators, I would start at car boot sales and bingo halls.

Given already the rates run very high for no further action regarding reports (see link #6).... I think it'd be a mistake. The simple reality is vast majority of people are clueless about the benefit criteria... add to that probably largely blind to the claims and medical background of people in question... and you can see why usually these reports amount to nothing. Encourage people more with money and the DWP are going to be swamped with even more carp... which could well end up taking resources from actually getting good decision making in the first place which is where most errors of award actually will arise.

Here you have a case of someone certain fraud is being committed... yet they admit they don't even know the benefit award. There's evidence they don't understand the application of PIP criteria. And this is despite an apparent sustained interest in their entitlement and disabilities from a position of relation familiarity. So who knows what the truth is of this case. All you can do is suggest they report a crime if they think it has been, or is being, committed.

MSE is a good place for seeing probably above average informed people misunderstanding benefit criteria. As I said above there are members who have slurred me... and for example pointed at facts I have revealed as evidence that I have lied/exaggerated about disability in assessment. I have then responded by stating the clear facts and descriptor choices awarded and why.. but they seem to then get ignored because they don't fit the belief. I get PIP mobility as "cannot go out due to overwhelming distress"... so of course when I mention having gone out I get accused of deception...even though the assessor who awarded the descriptor assessed me when I was out..lol.... do they think I was sat there saying I can never go out and that my evidence from HCPs detailing meetings arose from telepathic encounters? Given that I have no physical problem walking and could certainly go for a jog I imagine any throwaway remark that I get disability for mobility would p rick up the ears of many hoping for a few quid tip off over something they're clueless about.

Blatchford

For what it is worth, I think the poster should report their concerns and provide their evidence. Benefit fraud is not a victimless crime. Those who work don't pay taxes to subsidize the lifestyle of the lazy or fraudsters. And those who commit fraud contribute to negative public opinion about those who legitimately claim benefits because they have no other choices. If there are good reasons why this person qualifies for PIP at an enhanced rate, then they will have no need to fear investigation regardless of whatever evidence the poster has. I'm afraid it's just a fact that a very small number of people are capable of !!!!!!!!ting for England when it comes to benefits, and they damage the reputation and credibility of the vast majority. It is people like that who have made it so hard for people with with legitimate claims to get the benefits they need.

Stop_Watch

Originally Posted by Stop Watch View Post
I think they should employ bounty hunters to chase the tip offs and hunt down the fakers / over exaggerators, I would start at car boot sales and bingo halls.

Muttleythefrog wrote: »

Given already the rates run very high for no further action regarding reports (see link #6).... I think it'd be a mistake. The simple reality is vast majority of people are clueless about the benefit criteria... add to that probably largely blind to the claims and medical background of people in question... and you can see why usually these reports amount to nothing. Encourage people more with money and the DWP are going to be swamped with even more carp... which could well end up taking resources from actually getting good decision making in the first place which is where most errors of award actually will arise.

Here you have a case of someone certain fraud is being committed... yet they admit they don't even know the benefit award. There's evidence they don't understand the application of PIP criteria. And this is despite an apparent sustained interest in their entitlement and disabilities from a position of relation familiarity. So who knows what the truth is of this case. All you can do is suggest they report a crime if they think it has been, or is being, committed.

MSE is a good place for seeing probably above average informed people misunderstanding benefit criteria. As I said above there are members who have slurred me... and for example pointed at facts I have revealed as evidence that I have lied/exaggerated about disability in assessment. I have then responded by stating the clear facts and descriptor choices awarded and why.. but they seem to then get ignored because they don't fit the belief. I get PIP mobility as "cannot go out due to overwhelming distress"... so of course when I mention having gone out I get accused of deception...even though the assessor who awarded the descriptor assessed me when I was out..lol.... do they think I was sat there saying I can never go out and that my evidence from HCPs detailing meetings arose from telepathic encounters? Given that I have no physical problem walking and could certainly go for a jog I imagine any throwaway remark that I get disability for mobility would p rick up the ears of many hoping for a few quid tip off over something they're clueless about.

The difference being the bounty hunters would be vetted and entitled to see the original claim form. so for example is somebody puts down they cant leave the house alone but are recorded out shopping 3 times alone. Or somebody says they cant walk unaided but recorded walking the dog 3 times unaided BOOM benefits stopped and bounty hunter gets paid. I don't see why anybody would have a problem with this. If you have told the truth you have nothing to hide.

Prinzessilein

Stop_Watch wrote: »

Originally Posted by Stop Watch View Post
I think they should employ bounty hunters to chase the tip offs and hunt down the fakers / over exaggerators, I would start at car boot sales and bingo halls.



The difference being the bounty hunters would be vetted and entitled to see the original claim form. so for example is somebody puts down they cant leave the house alone but are recorded out shopping 3 times alone. Or somebody says they cant walk unaided but recorded walking the dog 3 times unaided BOOM benefits stopped and bounty hunter gets paid. I don't see why anybody would have a problem with this. If you have told the truth you have nothing to hide.

My claim is 100% genuine...and I would be furious to have a 'bounty hunter' following me around.

The forms don't ask if you can NEVER go out alone...it is all about fulfilling the criteria RELIABLY, REPEATEDLY and SAFELY...

Someone could quite correctly claim they cannot go out alone...and then be filmed 3 times going to the corner shop alone...it may be that these 3 occasions were months apart, and were the ONLY times the claimant had left their home alone in that period...the camera would not necessarily film the whole journey...and could certainly not record the physical and mental effort those journeys made....going out alone on 3 occasions would not necessarily be in contradiction of a claim that someone cannot go out alone (the criteria states - you need to do this on the MAJORITY of occasions..)

I have been the unfortunate victim of a malicious reporting in the past...I would hate to go through it again...the fight to 'prove' my case was humiliating to me...I go through regular checks by my medical specialist...I have successfully come through a fair number of DLA and now PiP assessments...I really don't need the trauma of an investigation due to snide reporting by someone who has never seen a claim-form but just decides I am pulling-a-fast-one...and I really don't want my movements recorded by a bounty-hunter who will be less than neutral in their filming (after all they only get paid if they 'prove' I am cheating the system...quite the incentive for them to employ some creative camera work!)

Muttleythefrog

Stop_Watch wrote: »

The difference being the bounty hunters would be vetted and entitled to see the original claim form. so for example is somebody puts down they cant leave the house alone but are recorded out shopping 3 times alone. Or somebody says they cant walk unaided but recorded walking the dog 3 times unaided BOOM benefits stopped and bounty hunter gets paid. I don't see why anybody would have a problem with this. If you have told the truth you have nothing to hide.

So bounty hunters... they're going to see confidential information including medical information and reports (which are in themselves often seriously defective)..... I can't see that happening... period. And the claim forms (where claimants describe how their illness/disability affects them) are different than the awards anyway... the bounty hunters would need to know and understand the award details and therefore they'll need similar skills and understanding to Decision Makers and the HCPs. The idea that disabled and sick people will be covertly followed by bounty hunters also would be extremely controversial and politically probably very difficult... possibly even illegal. You could find genuine claimants in hiding out of fear of malicious reports and the idea that if you've nothing to hide you've nothing to fear is utter rubbish... I've been on the wrong end of a fraud investigation and I knew I'd done nothing wrong... it almost killed me. How do you think a paranoid claimant will react to the thought they're being watched...'ah this person on the internet says I've nothing to fear'. You can see the damage done to people, some famous, day in day out by being put through legal processes and investigations when they're innocent and that's in relation to relatively healthy people in more general crime terms.

Oh and bounty hunters by definition are going to be biased in trying to evidence a particular theme otherwise they won't get paid I presume... unlike genuine benefit fraud investigators whose role is to determine truth... and this is crucial because as above there are reliability consideration associated with activities which means the claimant may well do things time to time that their award implies they cannot.... I gave my example above 'cannot go out due to overwhelming distress'. 'We attended Muttley's home address and observed him (see enclosed mpg format files footage with names as per date of recording) leaving for trips out on 5 occasions proving he can go out and does go out. If you could send payment promptly we'd be most grateful. Yours, BadBackInvestigations Ltd. P.S. We won't bill you for the year spent spying on him to make these observations.'

You've not thought this through at all... sorry. It won't see the light of day. You might get people given a little reward for tip offs... but those tip offs as I say are going to be highly unreliable.. speculative in many cases... and ultimately mostly based on misinformation/misunderstanding etc. Remember at the other end of these reports is staff resources.

SingleSue

It was a neighbour reporting me for fraudulently claiming DLA (as it was at the time), that put me off actually putting a claim in for DLA for many years.

She was absolutely convinced I was claiming, would tell all the neighbours that it was a fact, that she knew 100% I was claiming DLA and then every time she saw me putting my bins out, something that happened rarely and with a huge struggle, would call to report a fraud. Obviously with no claim in or DLA award, her calls never went anywhere which caused her even more frustration (and gossiping) that I was "getting away with it" and I became the main topic of discussion for other like minded neighbours.

I had nothing to fear, I wasn't claiming any disability related benefits (initially I was in denial about having disabilities and thought I would magically get better and could throw away the crutches and the wheelchair) but it certainly caused me a huge amount of stress and I felt hunted, watched, scared to do anything in case she started up again.