Whistle blowing (PIP)

outtatown

Hi everyone,

Looking for some advice and/or encouragement on if I should or shouldn't contact the DWP about this.

Long story short, a member of my family claims to have a serious long term degenerative (physical) health condition (15+ years) the alleged impact of which qualifies him for higher rate mobility (he has a flashy, non adapted motability car) and possibly the daily living portion too, although not 100% on that.

He is constantly whining to the family about how hard life is and how serious his condition has become and how he can't do X Y and Z whenever someone needs a hand.

However, we've always known he's over exaggerating and is not impacted by his condition half as badly as he claims. He lived with my brother in 2017 for a year and he was more physically able/active on a day to day basis than my much younger, healthier brother was.

For the past year, after stumbling upon some damning evidence, I've been keeping a record (with screen caps and video capture) of what he's been up to via Facebook.

Since around June last year he's been consistently discoverable in a number of photos on local gym/sports groups pages as an active participant in the groups. I know it's not a crime for disabled people to exercise but what he's doing is above and beyond any "higher rate" capabilities.

Due to the fact no one in the family trusts him, and he is a pathological liar, I have also got into the habit of recording phone calls with him and have one where he's proudly told me he's been out jogging with his local group just prior to speaking. I have found this all to be in bad taste and have considered doing something to tip off the DWP long before now, but have felt it's perhaps best if I just turn a blind eye.

However, this past weekend, he was a part of a football tournament and the local press were there. They took photos (and video) of him actively participating in the game (for several hours) and even included a quote from him in the article. Funny thing is, he's been in the same paper a number of times before, and always complaining about something disability related. Of course, this time there's no mention of his illness, but he's in five or six photos they've posted and a video too.

The video shows him bending/stretching/jogging/jumping etc....doing basically everything you shouldn't be able to do if you're receiving PIP, especially at the higher rate. Since people have died due to rejection of their PIP claims over stupid things like being able to make a cup of tea, I find this whole matter disgusting and really feel like I should blow the whistle on him.

My question is - what would happen if I did? I assume they'd make him pay back benefits and there'd possibly be court action involved?

If he genuinely does have a condition, which isn't as bad as it will be in the future, how would being shopped now impact on a claim in later years?

How would I go about sharing the evidence I've collected? I see there's a hotline, but if I'm going to do it I'd like to send the files I've collected on a disk and as printoffs. I know a lot of fraud cases go nowhere due to lack of evidence, but everything I've captured would go a long way to prosecuting him. It's all out there on the internet for anyone to find, but of course, who's looking?

If I don't do something about it, is there anything that can come of me not telling? For example, if I knew about all this but someone else shopped him for and I was found out as having known what he was up to, would I be guilty of something?

Is shopping him the right thing to do? The reason I haven't is selfish, I don't want bad karma coming back on me, but I really feel like I can't stand by an allow this to go on any longer. He is so brazenly cheating the system. I have other family and friends who have to claim PIP to survive, due to being unable to manage their conditions or work. Both could only dream of going for a jog or participating in a football marathon.

Anyway, any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

pmlindyloo

In the end it is your call.

Just some things to bear in mind.

High rate mobility for PIP is extremely hard to get. Your family member would have had to produce medical evidence to back up their claims of meeting the criteria.

Perhaps the most important thing about PIP is that you only need to meet the criteria for 50% of the time to be awarded. So if you have a fluctuating condition which means that for part of the time you feel fit and well but for over 50% of the time (think over a year) you meet the criteria then you would still be entitled to it.

Without knowing the disability he claims to have and how it affects him nobody is going to be able to advise you.

[Deleted User]

If you claim to have been stalking them for a year (and yes that is stalking) why do you need validation from a bunch of strangers to forward it on?

Muttleythefrog

You claim you've evidence of fraud then report it to the DWP. We can't possibly know the consequences beyond that they'll look at the case.

As above... I am cautious in trusting the judgement of people regarding their assessment of entitlement of benefits of other people given they're likely to be poorly placed to know the details of their claim/award and medical history. Time and time again in places like MSE people demonstrate seriously defect knowledge of benefits like PIP (a good pointer is above for one reason - lack of appreciation for reliability context in applying descriptors)... there are members on MSE who believe I am committing fraud based on their failings... not mine... and happily ignore the facts which contradict their beliefs. There is some indication to me in your post that you are not likely particularly of technical understanding of PIP and you've not described anything that automatically indicates fraud. When you say things like "higher rate capabilities" this is quite vague in the sense it could encompass an array of visible and not so visible disabilities...even potentially for mobility component. And you admit you don't know what their award actually is in full. Comparing different claimants who may have awards for different reasons, of different levels, is not a clever way to assess things especially when adding in a sense of emotional justice. However clearly some people will be committing fraud in this way... claiming they're much more disabled than actually they are...gaining money as a result... and that's a fact. This could be one such case.

As per the last post I'm not sure why you need validation from strangers after a sustained evidence collection exercise and certainty about a crime. There's not a lot we can do if you believe in karma... in the end my view is if you've evidence of a crime then report it. The fact you've gone to some lengths over some time to evidence a crime suggests to me you're not likely to rest until you actually report the crime now convinced it exists.

Prinzessilein

I really fail to see why you would spend so much time and effort gathering 'evidence' against a family member...your time would have been better spent doing some research about PiPs….and in all your months of painstaking following you still haven't even discovered what rate of benefits they get?!!!

You need to look carefully at the descriptors for PiPs...and then you need to understand that being able to complete one of the descriptors is not enough...you need to be able to do it reliably, repeatedly and safely....as a general guidance, you need to be able to do the task 50% of the time - and do it in about the same time as other people - and complete it safely.

NeilCr

This

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/benefit-fraud-public-tip-offs-legal-action-police-no-evidence-dwp-work-pensions-department-a8144096.html

throws an interesting light on whistle blowng

TELLIT01

If as you state, there is a widely held belief within the family that he isn't anything like as disabled as he claims, then I believe you should report him. That can either be done anonymously, or you could contact your local JobCentre and ask for somebody in the fraud department with a view to passing on your evidence.

I know of a situation where somebody was shocked when their partner was awarded PIP, and has actually since left the partner because they don't want to be involved. Some people are very good at playing the part.

Spoonie_Turtle

Advice and/or encouragement OP? Do your research. Do the activities your family member has been doing give evidence that they can safely, reliably, and within a reasonable time frame do all the activities of daily living every day? I know of many people with high mobility awards who go to the gym or dance because that helps them stay as well as possible but they still can't walk more than a few metres usually. I know it's not the same as running around playing sport, but just an example of how not understanding either of how disability works or of how PIP works. Maybe the gym and sports helps his mental health, but you might not see him bedbound for a few days after that. (Hypothetical, but true for many people.) Basically: unless you yourself live with him and understand (not just see - *understand*) the impact his condition has on him, you are in no place to judge.

I honestly don't understand how people manage to scam PIP when they're not entitled, as the majority of actually entitled people have to fight really hard for it and it not a short fight either. I am aware it can happen in rare cases, I just don't understand how.

There was a 1.2% figure quoted in that article above, for fraud across all benefits. Whether that's % by number of cases or by monetary amount I don't know, but there is a website where one can access a lot of DWP statistics that someone posted elsewhere in the forum. The main instances of fraud across all benefits were due to claiming as single when actually they had partners, and undeclared income. [Neither of which is relevant to PIP, incidentally.]

Make of this what you will, OP.

poppy12345

I find it quite freaky that you've been stalking a family member for a year.



I think having a read of this will help you understand the PIP descriptors and the criteria.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers


Once you've done that maybe you need to understand your relatives condition a little more.

sassy_one

None of your business either way.

Why do you feel it necessary to stalk someone else because they have something you don't think they are entitled to?

You have no understanding how someones conditions affects them behind closed doors and on a day to day basis.
One week they might be great and do different things they couldn't for the last 3 weeks.

You aren't God and you have no right to judge someone by such.


I suggest getting a new hobby and leaving others to their lives.

For reference to anyone reporting BF, they'll seek evidence to support such and just because you saw Fred taking the bins out last night when he hasn't in 6 months won't make the DWP investigate.

TELLIT01

sassy-one wrote: »

None of your business either way.

It should be everybody's business if they have good cause to believe a fraudulent claim is being made. The money being paid out to fraudulant claimants doesn't come off the magic money tree.