Advice On Keeping Bills Down Please

JohnM5206

"I also want to look into getting a new programmable thermostat as the one I use has no manual control on it and overrides the boiler. So once I have programmed in the times and temperatures I want, if I decide I want to turn the heating off mid-way through a program, I can't because there is no off switch on the thermostat controls. I would have to go to the boiler and switch the heating off and just have hot water on (like you do in the summer) and if I want the heating on before the program kicks in then again I have to go to the boiler and switch the thermostats RF receiver from auto (programmed mode) to manual or always on mode so then the heating comes on until I switch it back to auto (in which case it stays on until the thermostats program tells it not to)."
I have found online an instruction manual for this perfectly capable thermostat/programmer. You could try this, and follow the section marked "Temporary Override":
In Normal mode: press and hold either the UP or DOWN key to display
the set point temperature. After two seconds, the RT500RF will enter
Temporary Override mode and allow increase or decrease of the set point
temperature. If the key is released within two seconds then you will only
be able to review the set point temperature.

If you want to change the temperature from that pre-programmed, you simply raise or lower the desired temp and the heating will run to that temperature. The description of switching one to manual and then the boiler to something else is not necessary.
Hope this might be useful.
When operating in Frost Protection mode,
the LCD display will show a reading of 5 °C
and also display the Frost Protection
indicator:
When operating in Temporary Override
mode, the LCD display will show the
temporary set point temperature:
RT500RF INSTRUCTION MANUAL
10:10
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AfxTwn

Ok I have just taken some meter readings and my gas is currently: 00004.246 m3 and electric is: 00017.348 kWh. Bearing in mind the meters were only installed on Wednesday and I only turned my heating on on Friday night and it's been on with the programmed thermostat since. I will take some more readings next Wednesday and every week thereafter so I can keep an eye on it.

I am planning on leaving Npower but I want to see what deal they offer me first. I think I do have around a £300+ debt incurred with them but I don't know how much of that is due to incorrect readings/old debt from the old meters and estimates. Hopefully Npower will say judging by my new readings then they have overcharged me and will reduce or cancel the debt. Either way, I think if they don't offer me a good deal then I will look at switching to another supplier and just paying off the final bill/debt.

I have got the instruction manual for the Salus thermostat and have been reading it. I know I can override the temperature temporarily but I don't really need to do this as I am happy with a maximum temperature of 18 degrees set in the program. Now I know how to turn off the heating via the thermostat, if I get too warm then I can just turn it off temporarily and back on again in time for the next program phase to start.

The reason I wanted a manual on and off button on the thermostat is so I can turn the heating on or off when the program isn't running. At the moment, using just the thermostat I have to wait till a program is running for heating. So for example, I don't have a program running during the day from 8am till 4pm, there is no heating on. But if I am at home and it gets cold then I may want to turn the heating on. With the thermostat, there is no manual control to turn the heating on, I have to wait until the next program starts (at 4pm) for the heating to come on, or adjust the program's time so it starts earlier. The only other way to get the heating on is to go to the boiler and switch the RF receivers switch from auto (programmed mode) to manual and the heating will come on but will stay on until I switch it back again. I also don't know if this means while the boiler is ignoring the thermostats program, it is also ignoring my set temperature of 18 degrees.

I have set the living room radiators TRV valve to full (5) as it is in the same room as the thermostat. I have set all the other rooms to number 2 but may increase to 3 in the bedroom if I need to. The bathroom heated towel rail is on whenever the heatings on and I have just fully opened the valves on it.

I am going to see if I can get a new rubber shower screen seal as mine has a bit of a gap between it and the bath and that's why the water is running down the screen, between the gap and then over the bath and onto the floor. For now I have tried adjusting the seal and pulled it down a bit to close the gap somewhat and I will put a towel down on the floor to soak up any excess water so I can start having a shower instead of a bath.

Also, I understand the logic of taking meter readings regularly before I get a bill so I can monitor any increase and therefore adjust my usage accordingly before I get a big bill but at the moment I have no idea what Npower are going to charge me until I see the next bill (plus I don't know if the smart meter tablet is showing the correct amount they are charging) and rather than limiting my use to an unnaturally low amount for fear of running up a large bill, I want to use what I would normally use so I get a better understanding of my usage and subsequent charges.

Npower have said they need to see my usage and get readings and in 10 days time they will send a bill which will have actual readings rather than estimates and then I can discuss with them further about my situation and any tariff changes. I could switch tariff now but there are different ones and I don't know what's best for me as I haven't been using the new smart meters long enough. Plus I want to avoid any expensive charges for ending the tariff early in case I have to move home at short notice due to the sometimes precarious life of rented accomodation and an unsecured tenancy and unpredictable landlords.

RelievedSheff

I think you need to get the instruction manual for your thermostat as you are misunderstanding how it works.

If you get chilly you just increase the temperature to one you want with the up button and you get heat. The increase isn't saved though so the next time cycle it will default to the preset temperature.

AfxTwn

RelievedSheff wrote: »

I think you need to get the instruction manual for your thermostat as you are misunderstanding how it works.

If you get chilly you just increase the temperature to one you want with the up button and you get heat. The increase isn't saved though so the next time cycle it will default to the preset temperature.

Wow! You are right, I was fundamentally misunderstanding this function and how the thermostat works. I thought pressing the up button only worked while the program was running during the time I set it to have the heating on. I didn't realise that I can press the up button any time and the heating will come on and increase to the temperature I set until the next cycle, when it will default to the temperature I had programmed in.

Presumably if I want to turn the heating off, I can just press the down button and decrease the temperature to below the current actual temperature and it will shut off?

Talldave

AfxTwn wrote: »

Wow! You are right, I was fundamentally misunderstanding this function and how the thermostat works. I thought pressing the up button only worked while the program was running during the time I set it to have the heating on. I didn't realise that I can press the up button any time and the heating will come on and increase to the temperature I set until the next cycle, when it will default to the temperature I had programmed in.

Presumably if I want to turn the heating off, I can just press the down button and decrease the temperature to below the current actual temperature and it will shut off?

Yes, but it will kick in again at the next programmed time boundary. Which is why I suggested using the frost protection mode to turn the heating off for an extended period of time. It's a single button press. You should never have to change the setting on the boiler - the thermostat does everything you need.

Welcome to 21st century heating, hassle free comfort!!

AfxTwn

Hi, just wanted to resurrect this thread for some more general advice about using my heating and possibly keeping the costs down.

I'm still in dispute with Npower about my bills and have since had some new smart meters installed so I can see my actual usage. It seems to be much less than what they were previously charging me and they are saying that they have to charge based on estimates from last year so they can project what I might use this coming winter and that's what they're basing the price off. This seems ridiculous to me as the whole point of the smart meter is to show my actual usage so it takes the guesswork out of it and they can charge based on my actual usage.

Anyway, I've been going round the houses with them as I am now in debt with them but I don't believe I owe them that money and I don't want to be paying a huge bill every month going forward based on last year's estimates. So I am in touch with the energy ombudsman and seeing if they can help. I think in the end I'll have to pay some money back to Npower but I will switch to someone else.

In the meantime I have been keeping a close eye on my usage and hoped someone could give me some advice about whether to use the programmable thermostat at all, what the best timings would be for me and some advice about the boiler.

At the moment I think I may have sludge in the system somewhere (possibly everywhere) as I get cold spots on the radiators (particularly at the bottom) and hear a lot of noises as the water (or sludge) is going through them as the heating comes on and they are warming up. I have tried bleeding the radiators and some air has come out of a couple of them but it's generally just water. The bathroom's heated towel rail has 3 sections and the top section is cold, with the middle warm and the lower hot. It always has air trapped in it no matter how often I bleed it.

I'm just wondering if there is sludge in the system, will that make the heating come on more often or the boiler/radiators work harder meaning it's using more gas? The gas is the main thing I am trying to reduce as it's costing so much money.

I am at home a lot except on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Fridays and at the moment my thermostat is set to 18 degrees (I never go above this) and set to come on at 6am till 8am (I usually get up between 6 to 6:30) and then it comes on at 4pm till 10pm as I go to bed around 10:30pm. I am not sure if that is too much or not and I'm trying to decide whether I should reduce the times even further?

The thermostat is in the living room but there is also a radiator too but it does have a TRV valve on it which is set to 5 as someone told me to set it on full because the thermostat's in the same room. My other radiators are: kitchen set to 2 (but that never gets hot unless I turn it to 3 or more), master bedroom, computer room and spare bedroom and hallway are all set to 2 and have no problems getting hot unlike the kitchen radiator.

I don't think I have the heating on excessively or turned too high but what does anyone else think?

My boiler is a Main Combi 24 HE and according to this site: https://www.homeheatingguide.co.uk/efficiency-tables?model=010444 has an energy efficiency of 86.4% (is that good or bad?). I don't know how old the boiler is.

I live in a rented house and my landlord isn't the best when it comes to repairs so I'm trying to do as much stuff on my own as I can. If my radiator system needs cleaning out for sludge etc, then I am not sure my landlord would get that done, let alone changing a boiler. As usual with private renting, I am stuck as my landlord either won't do repairs/general maintenance, or I am worried they may put the rent up or even get sick of the hassle and me complaining and then want me out of the house and I can't afford to move again.

Anyway, any advice about heating would be great. I know a lot of the issues are down to personal preference but I'm really worried about it and would just like some solid direction on what to do.

Thanks.

thorganby

The first thing that I would do is add some Sentinel X400 High Performance Cleaner, e.g. available for £14.51 from Screwfix:

https://www.screwfix.com/p/sentinel-x400-rapid-dose-system-restorer-300ml/9217v

You can easily do this yourself, it only takes 30 seconds. See full video instructions for use here:

https://www.sentinelprotects.com/uk/rapiddose

Any air in your system will collect at the highest point and this is normal e.g. if your heated towel rail is taller than other radiators, the air will collect there and can easily be bleed out at this point.

Your heating won't work efficiently until all radiators are getting thoroughly hot all over, so that is your first priority.

FreeBear

AfxTwn wrote: »

The thermostat is in the living room but there is also a radiator too but it does have a TRV valve on it which is set to 5 as someone told me to set it on full because the thermostat's in the same room. My other radiators are: kitchen set to 2 (but that never gets hot unless I turn it to 3 or more), master bedroom, computer room and spare bedroom and hallway are all set to 2 and have no problems getting hot unlike the kitchen radiator.

A general rule is the radiator nearest the thermostat is not fitted with a TRV. The simple reason is that if the TRV is turned down or off, the thermostat will demand more heat from the boiler and waste energy. Either replace the TRV valve with a standard fixed valve, or unscrew the TRV head.

As for the other radiators - It sounds like the whole system needs balancing. Not an easy job (it involves quite a bit of faffing), but is something you can do with a bit of patience. Plenty of "How To" guides on youtube and other sources.

Comparing energy usage, I'm also in a 3 bed semi (3rd bedroom is just a box room). In most of the day and have to young ladies around 24/7. Annual electricity is 3,000KWh, and gas 3600KWh. Heating is turned off in two rooms that are only used for storage (box room & rear reception room). I also have the advantage of a multifuel stove in the lounge which supplements the heating during the winter months.

AfxTwn

@thorganby Thanks for the link to the Sentinel product. I will look into that and see if it's something I can do. I'm not sure if my entire system needs to be flushed or not though.

@FreeBear How do I replace the living room TRV with a lockshield valve and does this require draining the radiator? I'd prefer to keep the TRV on as it's less messing about (it is fully open) but what do you mean by unscrewing the head?

thorganby

AfxTwn wrote: »

@thorganby Thanks for the link to the Sentinel product. I will look into that and see if it's something I can do. I'm not sure if my entire system needs to be flushed or not though.

@FreeBear How do I replace the living room TRV with a lockshield valve and does this require draining the radiator? I'd prefer to keep the TRV on as it's less messing about (it is fully open) but what do you mean by unscrewing the head?

I would certainly try the Sentinel X400 High Performance Cleaner as these products do work and it is likely that your system has not had any inhibitor/cleaner added for years, as most people just have a very basic safety check done.

A properly done system flush will cost you hundreds, certainly a lot more than £15.

When you bleed the radiators, do it with the boiler off.

You don't need to mess about changing the TRV, as what you have done setting it to maximum is fine. Also the very low gas consumption quoted is totally unrealistic for a similar property to yours, so you should ignore that figure in my opinion.