Irish hard border question

lvader

Herzlos wrote: »

It's being ignored because it suits the argument that we can leave on WTO and just leave the border open. We can't.

Goods are smuggled across the Irish border today. Things like tobacco and alcohol are restricted.

Mistral001

Reaper wrote: »

Forgive me if this has been answered already, I did try a forum search.

In the event of a No Deal Brexit my understanding is 13% of goods imported to the UK would immediately have to pay tariffs with more to follow later (source), and many more goods being exported to the EU would immediately have tariffs to pay.

Since nobody is making any effort at all to build a hard border in the event of a no deal Brexit what is to stop me hiring a lorry and smuggling goods over the Irish border in both directions all day long?

You will not be stopped at the border but when you try to sell those goods or use them you could have a lot of problems. You could maybe try to sell them in pubs etc but then there would be a chance that you could be caught. This happens at present with cigarettes, alcohol and many other goods coming across the Irish border today. There are different rates of excise duty on these goods on either of the border so smuggling does happen at present even though there are no physical checks on the border.

The same goes for VAT and income tax. There are different rates on either side of the border at present. The VAT matters are dealt with in the accounts departments of businesses who trade in goods being imported and exported across the border. The income tax matters say for people who live on one side of the border and work on the other side are dealt with by the authorities on respective sides of the border also without the need for physical checks at the actual border. This all happens at present. With Brexit it will happen more often.

Reaper

Remember the infamous "Slab" Murphy whose farm straddled the border?
https://www.thejournal.ie/slab-murphy-tax-offences-evasion-2626039-Feb2016/

These days there are major roads across the border and one road crosses it 4 times in a 10 minute straight line drive URL="https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-northern-ireland-40104333/crossing-the-border-four-times-in-10-minutes"]link[/URL.

As soon as significant tariffs apply I can't see how occasional spot checks will make much of a dent in the profits of smuggling gangs. And since the whole point of Brexit is setting independent policies we should expect tax/VAT/tariff mismatches to quickly grow.

phillw

Mistral001 wrote: »

You could maybe try to sell them in pubs etc but then there would be a chance that you could be caught.

You have too limited an imagination.

Counterfeit aircraft parts were able to find their way into use, even when companies had much more stringent book keeping than is going to be applied post brexit.

It's a smugglers dream, funded by the tax payer. Another of the multitude of brexit stitch ups we'll come to enjoy.

Green_Bear

Mistral001 wrote: »

You will not be stopped at the border but when you try to sell those goods or use them you could have a lot of problems. You could maybe try to sell them in pubs etc but then there would be a chance that you could be caught. This happens at present with cigarettes, alcohol and many other goods coming across the Irish border today. There are different rates of excise duty on these goods on either of the border so smuggling does happen at present even though there are no physical checks on the border.

The same goes for VAT and income tax. There are different rates on either side of the border at present. The VAT matters are dealt with in the accounts departments of businesses who trade in goods being imported and exported across the border. The income tax matters say for people who live on one side of the border and work on the other side are dealt with by the authorities on respective sides of the border also without the need for physical checks at the actual border. This all happens at present. With Brexit it will happen more often.

Crimes such this are a bit different in Northern Ireland, for obvious reasons.

Green_Bear

phillw wrote: »

I think they are going to have covert surveillance watching for lorries and they will then be investigated and intercepted if they don't head to the designated areas.

If you want to smuggle then you need to use less conspicuous methods.

There are probably sea routes that you can use that they don't have the ability to monitor effectively

For some reason, I expect the locals are rather adept at spotting such goings on in this area...

Would you like to start sneaking around South Armagh with a hidden camera?

Herzlos

lvader wrote: »

Surely our nice friends in the EU would simply allow us back in no questions asked in the event of a remain Government taking over after the 31st of October.

They would. ECJ has confirmed that if we revoke Article 50 then we're back in as if nothing happened. Minus all the good will we destroyed, obviously, but from a legal position nothing would change.


Of course the Leavers don't want you to know that :beer:

System

phillw wrote: »

Counterfeit aircraft parts ........ Another of the multitude of brexit stitch ups we'll come to enjoy.

What has Brexit got to do with the manufacture and smuggling of counterfeit aircraft parts?


Brexit hasn't happened yet.

Herzlos

Clifford_Pope wrote: »

What has Brexit got to do with the manufacture and smuggling of counterfeit aircraft parts?


Brexit hasn't happened yet.

He's pointing out that smuggled goods aren't just sold by guys in pubs, so are much harder to track down. Once it's over the border it's a nightmare to identify and deal with. Pretty much anything can be smuggled if you try hard enough, and injected into the supply chain at any point.

Takedap

Mistral001 wrote: »

You will not be stopped at the border but when you try to sell those goods or use them you could have a lot of problems. You could maybe try to sell them in pubs etc but then there would be a chance that you could be caught. This happens at present with cigarettes, alcohol and many other goods coming across the Irish border today.

If you are caught doing this in some NI pubs, you'd better hope that it's the Police or the Customs that have caught you.


If not, you might have an appointment with a drill & a bottle of bleach.