Buying house with an internal wall removed

darthpaul6

tasticz wrote: »

Can you show us the floor plan and highlight the wall you are referring to. I will give you my opinion if you provide this

Much obliged, tasticz.

Here's the floor plan.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1QuKWE5z95FRHKU6zgLJintROzzwcePIV

The wall the surveyor has highlighted is the partial one to the right of the kitchen sink (if you're facing it).

She says "I believe a section of the original kitchen wall may have been removed to reconfigure the layout of the rear leg to incorporate the bathroom and rear lobby".

The survey says "It is not possible to determine the exact nature of support provided to the structure above". That extension project looks to have been signed off by the Local Authority Building Control when completed, but we're waiting for our Solicitor to confirm that.

darthpaul6

Quick update for anyone remotely interested...

The Estate Agent says the wall we thought was the removed one (between living room and hall) was gone when the current owners moved in (we knew that from photos of previous sales). Apparently they are developers, and did not consider it load-bearing. There are a couple of huge wardrobes in the bedroom right above it, so the likelihood of it having been load-bearing seems small. My other half remains nervous about it though, so we're seeking the Surveyor's clarification on that in particular.

Meanwhile, the local council has no trace of the planning history of the property in their pre-1974 archives.

The less I can find out about its history the more nervous I get. Am I just having FTB jitters?

davidmcn

darthpaul6 wrote: »

Meanwhile, the local council has no trace of the planning history of the property in their pre-1974 archives.

Why would anything from 45+ years ago be relevant to you?

babyblade41

That is exactly what we are proposing to do with the exact same layout in the kitchen,

We do have an RSJ about 3 ft from the wall we are taking out and there isn't a wall carrying on above it upstairs .

Realistically that length of time I wouldn't worry about it

Mutton_Geoff

You can also get a good idea if it’s load bearing by going upstairs and looking at the direction of floorboards in the room above. Floorboards are laid at right angles over joists. The joists span load bearing supports usually at right angles (external and internal walls), so generally load bearing walls downstairs are ones that run in the same direction as upstairs floorboards. Also look at walls that continue to rise to the upstairs ceilings (as these will be supporting the roof joists).

One of the main bodges in older houses is clumsy removal of chimney breasts. Check outside and inside the loft to see how the stack is supported if there is evidence fireplaces have been removed.

darthpaul6

davidmcn wrote: »

Why would anything from 45+ years ago be relevant to you?

Because as you pointed out further up, the Surveyor should be able to tell us how old it is... but she can't. All she's done is take the EA's word for it being a fill-in and said she can't verify it. Given her doubts about the wall, I'm curious as to whether there were plans available anywhere. I didn't know if I'd get them from a search with the council but it seemed a reasonable avenue to explore.

I wouldn't normally be digging this deep, but there seems to have been so much fudging on this that it's piqued my interest/suspicion (delete as appropriate).

darthpaul6

babyblade41 wrote: »

That is exactly what we are proposing to do with the exact same layout in the kitchen,

We do have an RSJ about 3 ft from the wall we are taking out and there isn't a wall carrying on above it upstairs .

Realistically that length of time I wouldn't worry about it

I tend to agree about the length of time... but being First Time Buyers we sometimes have horrific visions of us being the ones it caves in on!

darthpaul6

Mutton_Geoff wrote: »

You can also get a good idea if it’s load bearing by going upstairs and looking at the direction of floorboards in the room above. Floorboards are laid at right angles over joists. The joists span load bearing supports usually at right angles (external and internal walls), so generally load bearing walls downstairs are ones that run in the same direction as upstairs floorboards. Also look at walls that continue to rise to the upstairs ceilings (as these will be supporting the roof joists).

One of the main bodges in older houses is clumsy removal of chimney breasts. Check outside and inside the loft to see how the stack is supported if there is evidence fireplaces have been removed.

Thanks for the tips! Fireplaces are all still there (though oddly off-centre from the breasts, I don't know if that's significant.)
The floors upstairs are carpeted, so no easy access to the boards (not to mention the access to the house is not the easiest because of occupiers' work patterns), but I'll bear it in mind if we get a chance to look.

davidmcn

darthpaul6 wrote: »

Because as you pointed out further up, the Surveyor should be able to tell us how old it is... but she can't. All she's done is take the EA's word for it being a fill-in and said she can't verify it. Given her doubts about the wall, I'm curious as to whether there were plans available anywhere. I didn't know if I'd get them from a search with the council but it seemed a reasonable avenue to explore.

I wouldn't normally be digging this deep, but there seems to have been so much fudging on this that it's piqued my interest/suspicion (delete as appropriate).

It might be interesting, but it really isn't important.

Doozergirl

If that bit of wall was removed as part of the extension works, then it would be covered by the certificate on the extension!

You only get one line to explain what you're doing as a header. That's what gets recorded. There is zero detail of the works involved on the certificate.

Every extension we've ever done has required some sort of knock-through. I have never detailed the knock through on the header, it would literally say 'single/double storey extension'

I'm not sure why you continue to dig, tbh. You're not chasing around for the certificate for when the house was built, so it's a waste of energy after this long. I was in primary school then.