Bought 2 laptops, 1 died after 15 months...

TK8Anorak

Hi there,

I've been reading around on this and I don't seem to have found a solid answer to the scenario which I'll describe (maybe there isn't one?). Any help / advice appreciated, please.

In May last year, I bought 2 laptops (Mac), both delivered to my house and paid for on the credit card (which I paid off straight away ). One was for my son and one for my wife.

My son had noticed that his left-side USB port didn't always recognise devices. We put it down to maybe faulty cables, changed the cables but still it kept happening. Not a big deal, we thought - he only ever uses one USB device, so he can use the right hand port. (Yes, I know, we should have reported a fault in hindsight). Not sure if this is relevant, but the USB port in question is the one next to the power inlet.

Last week, his laptop refused to charge and what charge it had left drained overnight. We even changed chargers with the identical laptop (identical charger). Still nothing. Then, the original charger seemed to be charging again... until there was a screeching noise and blue smoke came out of the laptop by where the power cord connects. Needless to say, we've not powered it on again to see what happens!

Meanwhile, the other laptop bought at the same time is doing fine.

I reported the issue after reading in the forums. The company I bought them from (not the manufacturer - but I won't name them, but they are a reputable and well-known company - not mentioned on here before) have said that they're not interested, because the terms and conditions on their website clearly stated that the products are offered with a 12 month warranty and we're now out of that 12 months, so goodbye. They also pointed out that by agreeing to the order, I agreed to the fact that there was 12 months warranty on the devices and showed me a screenshot of the order (I'm not disputing that - it clearly did say 12 months warranty).

However, looking at the "Your rights when shopping in the EU" website (sorry, I'm not allowed to post links yet), I see that it states:

If goods you bought anywhere in the EU turn out to be faulty or do not look or work as advertised, the seller must repair or replace them free of charge or give you a price reduction or a full refund. You can usually only ask for a partial or full refund when it is not possible to repair or replace the goods.
Under EU consumer rules you always have the right to a 2-year minimum guarantee at no cost, regardless of whether you bought your goods in a shop, online or through distance selling, such as from a catalogue or by telephone. This 2-year guarantee is your minimum right, however national rules in your country may give you extra protection.

Any repair or replacement should be completed within a reasonable time, and without significant inconvenience to you.

Additional guarantees (commercial guarantees, warranties):

Shops or producers will sometimes offer you an additional commercial guarantee (also called a "warranty"), either included in the price of the product or at an extra cost. This can give you better protection but can never replace or reduce the 2-year minimum guarantee, which you always have under EU rules.

Similarly, if a shop sells you a new product more cheaply and claims that you have no guarantee, this only means that you don't have any additional protection. You always have the right to a 2-year guarantee free of charge if the product turns out to be faulty or not as advertised.

I've pointed out to the company that even they expect similar laptops issued to their staff to last a minimum of 4 years, so 15 months is unreasonable.

I'm also prepared to seek professional advice over this if I need to. I'm just waiting for a response from them at the moment, but just wanted to get some thoughts, as I've seen various similar posts on these forums, but there doesn't appear to be a general consensus as to where we stand with this.

Thanks.

boo_star

No such thing as the "EU 2 year guarantee."

The Consumer Rights Act does however give you up to 6 years to claim a refund, replacement or repair (retailers choice) if you can show that the product has an inherent fault via an independent report (if the product is older than 6 months.)

TK8Anorak

Thanks, @boo_star. I'll see if I can book an appointment with Apple to get them to verify it.
As for the 2 year guarantee - I was just quoting what europa [dot] eu say on the website.
This also seems to fit wit Martin's "Sad Fart" mnemonic - the question is though what is "a reasonable amount of time". That's going to be hard to prove, but I'd wager it's more than 15 months for a Mac.


What's meant by an 'inherent fault' here. Is it specifically one where there's been a product recall or is it where there is poor production / poor quality build? If this is a circuit board issue (which I suspect it is from the smell of the burning), that might be hard to prove?



I'll update with any progress...

boo_star

MoneySavingMatt wrote: »

Thanks, @boo_star. I'll see if I can book an appointment with Apple to get them to verify it.
As for the 2 year guarantee - I was just quoting what europa [dot] eu say on the website.
This also seems to fit wit Martin's "Sad Fart" mnemonic - the question is though what is "a reasonable amount of time". That's going to be hard to prove, but I'd wager it's more than 15 months for a Mac.


What's meant by an 'inherent fault' here. Is it specifically one where there's been a product recall or is it where there is poor production / poor quality build? If this is a circuit board issue (which I suspect it is from the smell of the burning), that might be hard to prove?



I'll update with any progress...

It's just a fault that was present from purchase but not necessarily obvious.

So a dodgy solder joint would be present from day one but might not cause a problem for some time afterwards.

TK8Anorak

Got it - thanks!

unholyangel

Its not that there is no 2 year EU rule, its that it refers to a legal warranty rather than a manufacturers or retailers warranty. That you should have a period of not less than two years to take legal action should the goods not conform.

The limitation period in england is 6 years from purchase and in scotland 5 years from discover, so well in excess of the minimum 2 years.

The 6 month burden is also part of that same EU law - meaning after 6 months its up to you to show it was inherent.

TK8Anorak

Thanks @unholyangel. So basically, my best next step is to let Apple have a look at this and see how they describe the fault and present that finding back to the company. That should hopefully then show that there was an inherent fault.


Thanks.

societys_child

is to let Apple have a look at this and see how they describe the fault and present that finding back to the company

You'd probably need something in writing from Apple.

Jumblebumble

MoneySavingMatt wrote: »

Hi there,

I've been reading around on this and I don't seem to have found a solid answer to the scenario which I'll describe (maybe there isn't one?). Any help / advice appreciated, please.

In May last year, I bought 2 laptops (Mac), both delivered to my house and paid for on the credit card (which I paid off straight away ). One was for my son and one for my wife.

My son had noticed that his left-side USB port didn't always recognise devices. We put it down to maybe faulty cables, changed the cables but still it kept happening. Not a big deal, we thought - he only ever uses one USB device, so he can use the right hand port. (Yes, I know, we should have reported a fault in hindsight). Not sure if this is relevant, but the USB port in question is the one next to the power inlet.

Last week, his laptop refused to charge and what charge it had left drained overnight. We even changed chargers with the identical laptop (identical charger). Still nothing. Then, the original charger seemed to be charging again... until there was a screeching noise and blue smoke came out of the laptop by where the power cord connects. Needless to say, we've not powered it on again to see what happens!

Meanwhile, the other laptop bought at the same time is doing fine.

I reported the issue after reading in the forums. The company I bought them from (not the manufacturer - but I won't name them, but they are a reputable and well-known company - not mentioned on here before) have said that they're not interested, because the terms and conditions on their website clearly stated that the products are offered with a 12 month warranty and we're now out of that 12 months, so goodbye. They also pointed out that by agreeing to the order, I agreed to the fact that there was 12 months warranty on the devices and showed me a screenshot of the order (I'm not disputing that - it clearly did say 12 months warranty).

However, looking at the "Your rights when shopping in the EU" website (sorry, I'm not allowed to post links yet), I see that it states:

I've pointed out to the company that even they expect similar laptops issued to their staff to last a minimum of 4 years, so 15 months is unreasonable.

I'm also prepared to seek professional advice over this if I need to. I'm just waiting for a response from them at the moment, but just wanted to get some thoughts, as I've seen various similar posts on these forums, but there doesn't appear to be a general consensus as to where we stand with this.

Thanks.

Were these laptops brand new ?
Were they refurbished ?

forgotmyname

And apple will say buy a new one. They are unlikely to give you a letter saying yes this is an inherent fault and that it affects loads of their items.

You release that letter and they get an influx of warranty claims.

Look at past history, they deny obvious faults until forced to take action.

Not the only company either.

garth549

You don't have to go to Apple. Find someone who can diagnose and write an independent report for you. If they conclude that there was bad solder joints (for example) or a component failed or that should last say 5 years then this is very good evidence that the fault was inherent at manufacture.

I'd certainly expect everything in an Apple laptop to last at least 3-4 years with normal use. They don't use cheap components. If it was Dell on the other hand I'd say 15 months is quite good!