UK CPM next steps?

sk_dhanda

Hi all

I just need some advice on how to proceed with a PCN that was issued by UK Car Park Management to my wife. I've read the newbies thread but I feel my case is a unique one and I'm unsure what to do.

We are contesting the fine as my wife was not the driver of the car when the car was parked on the private land. We were actually on holiday when the fine was issued. When we got to Heathrow Airport we dropped the car off to an airport parking service. We used the service from a company called ValAir Airport Parking that was booked via a website called looking4parking.com. This was the biggest regret my wife has and she wished she just booked the parking directly with the airport.

When we came back from holiday I was absolutely furious to find that this company who had our car put 140 miles on the car and they used three quarters of a full tank of petrol. When I got back home I done some research into this company and found out they were extremely dodgy and don't actually park the car on their own premise. They instead leave the car wherever they feel. A number of other customers had the same issue as us. After two weeks being back from our holiday we received the fine from UK CPM which was the icing on the cake.

We completed the "transfer liability" form and put the details down of the company who had our car. A month later we received a letter from debt recover management seeking payment from us. My wife rang UK CPM and asked why these letters are being sent when we have transferred liability. The women on the phone was extremely rude and said they could not transfer liability to the company as the address they gave did not exist. The women stated that my wife MUST pay the fine as she is the registered keeper. She said it doesn't matter that someone else had the car and that she will have to pay.

We then followed UK CPM's appeal process. We sent evidence of our holiday tickets which was proof we were out the country and we also sent them the booking reference of the car parking which was proof that we did not have the car.

UK CPM replied to the appeal and acknowledged that we were out the country, but they will not put the PCN on hold until they can transfer liability. They have requested the name of the company and the address of the company who had the car at the time.

This reply letter was dated 22nd July. I have not responded to this letter as we already gave them these details when we initially tried to transfer liability, and I know they will say the same thing as before, "the address of the company is not real".

I have now received a letter from Gladstones Solicitors instructing us to pay Debt Recovery Plus limited. This letter was sent on 19th August.

I'm really unsure now on what steps to take next. I'm thinking of taking one of the two actions:

1. Do nothing and wait until UK CPM take court action. I feel this may be the best option as we have evidence that we were out the country and our car was in the hands of someone else.

2. Reply back to UK CPM and give the details "again", and see where that goes.

Any advice would be much appreciated. My wife is 5 months into her pregnancy and I'm worried about the stress this is causing.

Thanks in advance!

Redx

1) is the best option , the details were given in good faith so as long as you are sure that the address given is on your contract with this meet and greet , then leave it at that

Let a judge decide , eventually , which is long after the baby is born, up to 6 years from now

File all the paperwork for now , but do not ignore an LoC or an mcol from the CCBC in Northampton

There is no stress until they issue a court case via the CCBC

PS , because your wife is the keeper , if they followed POFA then they can hold your wife responsible, even if she was miles away at the time

sk_dhanda

Redx wrote: »

1) is the best option , the details were given in good faith so as long as you are sure that the address given is on your contract with this meet and greet , then leave it at that

Let a judge decide , eventually , which is long after the baby is born, up to 6 years from now

File all the paperwork for now , but do not ignore an LoC or an mcol from the CCBC in Northampton

There is no stress until they issue a court case via the CCBC

PS , because your wife is the keeper , if they followed POFA then they can hold your wife responsible, even if she was miles away at the time

Thanks for the reply. My only concern with option 1 is if UK CPM could win the case on the basis that they were unable to transfer liability. My wife does have booking confirmation that instructed us to drop the car off at terminal 5 at Heathrow Airport. The confirmation also has the name of the company who took our car. The address I used to transfer liability was the address I found on the company house website as ValAir Parking have now shut down their website.

As far as I'm concerned, its up to UK CPM to chase ValAir parking as we've provided evidence that they had our car. However, UK CPM will argue the case, "We can't deliver the notice as the address of the company is fake". Could they win using this argument?

The_Deep

Never phone a PPC, ever. As this is likely to end with a court claim everything on paper.

It is very likely the valet parking company has scammed you, Companies House records seem to confirm the firm no longer exists.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3215518/Cowboy-airport-parking-companies-Heathrow-Gatwick-Manchester-exposed.html

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/travellers-face-fines-after-heathrow-parking-scam-a3519966.html

If this is the case then the PPC may have a case aginst your wife, caveat emptor. IANAL, but if Valair has done a runner, then the RK may well be liable. This may well be a complex legal matter so, as Redx says, let a judge decide.

Meanwhile follow every avenue to trace Valair yourself, can you not get togethet with others who have been scammed and hire a PI? I do not think that the PPC have any obligation to do so.

sk_dhanda

I can confirm that ValAir are scammers. Numerous people have posted on reviews similar experiences to ours. Some people have stated that their dash cams were disconnected and damage was left on the car. They have removed their website and when trying to contact them via telephone the line is dead. It is now impossible to get in contact with them.

On company house the status of the company is active. However, the address on company house does not actually exist. UK CPM said the letter could not be delivered when we tried to initally transfer liablity.

My wife is adament she is not paying the PCN. She has stated, "why should I pay a fine for something that I have not done", which I agree with. I'm a little concerned though about how much this would cost if we was to go to court and if we did lose the case.

BrownTrout

Dont start worrying now
It's a case of wait and see.

nosferatu1001

NO need to "transfer liability"
THe lia bility is ALWAYS with the driver, and if not, the KEEPER.
You were not the keeper at the time, you could not have been> THEY had control of the vehilce.

[Deleted User]

The obligation under POFA is to provide a valid England & Wales service address for the driver, who almost certainly was an employee of the company. You have provided that, discharging your obligation which is to provide an address at which the driver "can conveniently be contacted." A company is a legal person, so can be the driver and you have provided the address.

You have email confirmation to prove that the company had possession of the vehicle at the relevant date/times.

The company may have ceased trading, but it is still a legal entity with a registered address for service, which was recently updated - so one assumes is both current & convenient. It is up to the PPC to decide whether "it's worth the candle" to pursue it, but I don't see they can rely on POFA to come after W as the keeper.

Incidentally the address does exist - based on Google maps it appears to be directing company notices & post to a storage facility (which may be irregular, but it's not illegal).

If the PPC wish to proceed they should issue against the company before it is struck from the register.

Self evidently you were both out of the country so cannot (as a matter of fact) be the driver - supported by boarding passes and perhaps even a holiday photo or two! I cannot see that there is any basis to pursue this on a factual basis either.

I'd put together a robust letter of response and tell them that if they commence court proceedings you will seek costs on the basis of unreasonable conduct of litigation where they know, or ought to have known, that there is no claim to answer by you.

Litigation is inherently unpredictable, so there are no guarantees of anything. Nevertheless, this is not in my view either legally complex or law which is not firmly established.

sk_dhanda

nosferatu1001 wrote: »

NO need to "transfer liability"
THe lia bility is ALWAYS with the driver, and if not, the KEEPER.
You were not the keeper at the time, you could not have been> THEY had control of the vehilce.

After reading your comment I had a quick read of POFA and schedule 4 cites the following:

“keeper” means the person by whom the vehicle is kept at the time the vehicle was parked, which in the case of a registered vehicle is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to be the registered keeper"

My understanding is that the registered keeper is presumed to be the keeper of the vehicle unless evidence can be provided that the car was in fact in possession of someone else. In my case I've provided evidence that the keeper was the airport parking service company, who should therefore be pursued. Am I right in thinking this?

sk_dhanda

Johnersh wrote: »

The company may have ceased trading, but it is still a legal entity with a registered address for service, which was recently updated - so one assumes is both current & convenient. It is up to the PPC to decide whether "it's worth the candle" to pursue it, but I don't see they can rely on POFA to come after W as the keeper.

Incidentally the address does exist - based on Google maps it appears to be directing company notices & post to a storage facility (which may be irregular, but it's not illegal)

Thanks for the reply. The issue is that storage facility does not exist at the address. On Google maps, "Unit 7 Tavistock Road" does not appear. The road is genuine but the actual unit itself does not exist. This is what UK CPM keeps stating and that the liability lies with us because they physically cannot hand over the notice to keeper to ValAir parking.

I understand UK CPM's predicament but I don't see how that is my problem. Ultimately my wife was not the keeper of the vehicle and UK CPM need to investigate ValAir instead.

[Deleted User]

the liability lies with us because they physically cannot hand over the notice to keeper to ValAir parking.

I'm afraid that this is just nonsense. They are coming after you because they think you have the deepest pockets, but as you say, that is not your concern nor your liability.

The company is served when proceedings are sent to the registered office address - that is the very purpose of the registered address. No officer of the company needs physically be there.

Are they really suggesting they are going to effect personal service? In which case, will they be serving a claim form on you by hand? Thought not. The law permits postal service (CPR 6.3(b)) as they well know, which would be valid for the purposes of securing judgment.

EXAMPLE: if we took a parking company, say UK CPM, perhaps:
The registered office address of UK CPM is their accountant (19 New Road, Brighton), but their post is received to a PO Box, as you'll know. Their actual offices and staff are at a further address (Unit 6, The Quadrant, Marlborough Rd, Lancing BN15 8UW). The ONLY address permitted for postal service is the registered address (unless and until lawyers and/or an insolvency practitioner/trustee is appointed). I trust that will makes sense to UK CPM... :rotfl:

PS> I deny doing any research ahead of enforcing judgment against UK CPM.