UKPCM CCJ in absence August 2019

SRP1988

henrik777 wrote: »

Parking firms only get the information from DVLA once, and are only allowed to do so once. Had the OP changed the address immediately it would have made no difference.

Whilst they MAY, and i stress MAY, have served correctly, i'm not sure they have. I'd certainly be asking what steps they took to check the address was current or if they simply used it as the last known address without performing the basic steps required in CPR 9.



Nature of defendant to be served
Place of service
1. Individual Usual or last known residence.



(3) Where a claimant has reason to believe that the address of the defendant referred to in entries 1, 2 or 3 in the table in paragraph (2) is an address at which the defendant no longer resides or carries on business, the claimant must take reasonable steps to ascertain the address of the defendant’s current residence or place of business (‘current address’).


It is certainly at least arguable, that if all previous correspondence elicited no reply, that they might not reside there any more. The likelihood is even greater if the property is rented as i suspect may be the case here.



Given the mandatory nature of cpr 13.2 and the fact an application under 13.3 is likely to be made anyway, i can't see why you wouldn't try 13.2 with 13.3 as a backup.

Thank you for this helpful info. Still trying to get my head around all this but have read the link you provided under 6.9 and this makes sense to me. They should have had some idea I was no longer at the address due to no reply. Seems odd I have been picking up my mail and not a sign of any documents though...

Should I make a SAR to UKPCM? Not sure if this will help to have the info or just to delay things as I want to complete the application to set aside by next week.

SRP1988

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Even if you had, UKCPM would not have ever been notified by the DVLA anyway and they are not allowed to ask a second time for any new address. So your slight delay in updating your V5C has not caused this mess. UKCPM caused it.

How can they say you had 3 PCNs on the same day, what utter scammers?! Absolute pond life, should be banned from existing as a company IMHO.

Thanks for your reply! They are the most awful company. Still can't believe management companies actually employ these scammers. Most situations - this is for no reason - the underground car park at my old address is secure fob entry - a fob is only provided when a space is allocated and paid for. Therefore there is no-one parked which does not have authorisation to do so.

Will be checking the signage to see if they can issue more than one PCN in 24 hours, pretty sure they can't but nothing will surprise me with these b*******s !!

There was nothing in my AST about displaying a permit either, can i use this in my defence as primacy of contract?

SRP1988

Johnersh wrote: »

Service was completed in accordance with the court rules. Since the o/p is (in part or in whole) responsible for the failure to notify a current address - which is a legal requirement - best major on why the case can be defended, now it's known about.

In order to set aside there is a need

1. To act promptly

2. To demonstrate that the prospects of successful defence are more than false fanciful or imaginary (there's lots on here and Google about that)

The merits of an application are case specific, so only you can determine that.

If you really have 3 charges on the same date, try and visit or Google earth. AFAIK ukcpm signs normally provide for a charge each 24 hrs even were it enforceable.

Probably best lodge a draft defence with the application in my view, just because it shows how strong your arguments may be.

Thank you for your advice! Will also get a defence outlined in the probability I am questioned.

Will be applying for the set aside as soon as possible, by the end of next week I hope.

There is lots of signage in the car park so will be checking this regarding more than one PCN in 24 hours, hopefully this is unlawful!

SRP1988

Could any of you extremely helpful people answer these questions for me please?

Do I have to inform UKPCM that I am applying for a set aside or seek permission from them in anyway?

Is it wise to do a SAR to them before applying for the set aside or is this just wasting time?

Can't find anything about this! TIA

NeilCr

SRP1988 wrote: »

Thanks for your reply! They are the most awful company. Still can't believe management companies actually employ these scammers. Most situations - this is for no reason - the underground car park at my old address is secure fob entry - a fob is only provided when a space is allocated and paid for. Therefore there is no-one parked which does not have authorisation to do so.

?

You highlighted one of the problems with fob only parking yourself. Someone parked in your allocated space. And, unfortunately, people with fobs let their friends/relatives into car parks who then park where they want.

Having said that there are better ways than PPCs in such a situation - parking posts for example. Or living in a block/complex where people respect everyone else's spaces and there are no selfish folk who think they can park where they like.

ETA

You said there was nothing in your tenancy agreement about permits. Do you have any idea what your landlords lease said?

And what was the nature of the restricted area you parked in?

Sorry for the questions but trying to work on the primacy of contract angle!

The_Deep

Will be checking the signage to see if …

The signage is meaningless if the lease/AST allows Primacy, read these

https://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2016/11/residential-parking.html

Read post 93 et seq

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5969018jestershoe&page=5

SRP1988

NeilCr wrote: »

You said there was nothing in your tenancy agreement about permits. Do you have any idea what your landlords lease said?

And what was the nature of the restricted area you parked in?

Sorry for the questions but trying to work on the primacy of contract angle!

Just to give a bit of background I lived at this property from 2009-2019 - it was around 2013/2014 ish that this PPC were introduced, this was because of problems with parking due to a broken gate which the management company did not rectify for about a year much to the disdain of residents (people was using the car park as a free for all)

I had an allocated parking space from the start of my tenancy. I was not required to display a permit. Then this PPC came about, sent us all permits. I did not sign any further amendment to my tenancy or any parking agreement/contract, in fact my tenancy agreement was not edited or updated in the 10 years I was resident. I need to get a copy of my AST early next week to check the exact wording of the parking section (just need to go to their office to collect as they will not provide me a copy electronically)

Remember it saying nothing about displaying a permit when i previously read it - I had a couple of tickets back in 2016 the PPC did not pursue, therefore i wanted to check this was the case in the situation of any further action arising.

My landlord was a private housing association - how would I go about getting a copy of their lease if applicable?

I do not actually know at this stage if the PCN is for not parking in an allocated area or if it relates to not displaying a permit - or a possibility of both - hence my question about whether I should contact UKPCM for a SAR as I have no information other than the dates of the infringement.

But to answer your question the restricted area was namely up against the sliding gate, not restricting movement or parking of other vehicles. Had no choice at the time :mad:

Found this on parking prankster - is this relevant to use a defence as there are signs forbidding parking in certain areas?

The Signage - No Offer

If the wording of the signage forbids parking, then there is no offer to park and therefore no contract.

This is clear from several cases. In PCM-UK v Bull et all B4GF26K6 [2016], residents were parking on access roads. The signage forbade parking and so no contract was in place. A trespass had occurred, but that meant only the landowner could claim, not the parking company.

In UKPC v Masterson B4GF26K6[2016] it was also found the signage was forbidding and so the matter was one of trespass. The parking company did not have standing to claim.

In Horizon Parking v Mr J C5GF17X2 [2016] it was also found the signage was forbidding and so the matter was one of trespass. The parking company did not have standing to claim.


My apologies for all the blurb!! Trying to pick out anything that may be relevant for a defence. All over the place at the moment trying to get this sorted ASAP as I'm aware time is of the essence here.

henrik777

SRP1988 wrote: »

Thank you for this helpful info. Still trying to get my head around all this but have read the link you provided under 6.9 and this makes sense to me. They should have had some idea I was no longer at the address due to no reply. Seems odd I have been picking up my mail and not a sign of any documents though...

Should I make a SAR to UKPCM? Not sure if this will help to have the info or just to delay things as I want to complete the application to set aside by next week.

There are 2 places to try. 1 the claimant 2. the court.

I know you'll have read plenty "don't phone the claimant (or their legal team)" but really, i would say you should. As always, get names and an email address that you can send a brief overview of the call for back up.

Further you really should be contacting the claimant with regards to the application as you want to do it by consent if possible as it's easier and cheaper, plus you don't want them getting away with costs because they were unaware.

SRP1988

A few things have now come out in the wash.

Today I contacted PCM who directed me to to contact Gladstone’s. Gladstone’s are staying the PCM’s (all 4 of them) are for parking in a restricted area.

What is interesting is that all correspondence has been sent to a slightly different address - the address should have been flat xx, at name of flats, xxxx street name
Instead it was sent to xx street. Hence I didn’t receive anything.

It appears that the v5 has been incorrect since ownership of the vehicle which I never noticed as I did receive the v5?! (v5 also states same incorrect address) and obviously didn’t check the address as assumed it was correct as it had been delivered. This is probably my fault but I have also contacted DVLA for a copy of what was written on the new keeper slip that was sent to them upon purchasing the vehicle.

Also, it seems Gladstone’s have messed up the PCN dates. The court told me the PCN dates were as follows - 19/01/19 and 3 on 21/01/19.

Gladstone’s are stating different dates, with the same of the 19/01/19 and the other 3 on separate dates (don’t want to write them hear as not to be identified)

Does this help my case? Now I have the info required I will be completing my WS this evening for my set aside to be applied for on Thursday.

Thanks for all your help so far!

[Deleted User]

Gladstone’s are stating different dates, with the same of the 19/01/19 and the other 3 on separate dates (don’t want to write them hear as not to be identified)

Depends on what was claimed for on the claim form.

What is interesting is that all correspondence has been sent to a slightly different address

It's hard to argue incorrect service where the address used is as given on the V5c - that's a genuine last known address imho, unless it is self evidently wrong (no one lives on an entire street with no house number, for example)

but n



Non receipt is a decent reason to set aside the CCJ and remit it to a new hearing.