Tenancy Law - Landlord thinks he is above the law

foxreymann

Situation:
- I'm on 12 months AST the ending on 4/9/2019.
- It has a break clause
- It is England & Wales.

What I want to do:
- I want to move out on the 4/9/2019

What landlord is forcing me to do:
- My landlord is forcing me to give a months notice and move out on 30/09/2019
- They say that as this my 4th AST with them I can't move out on the last day of the AST. Complete non sense to me.
- Let me quote their email:

Good Afternoon Fox,

Please find the clause below which is included within your tenancy agreement -

4. Giving notice at the end of the fixed term

You must give us at least one month's notice in writing when you want to end the tenancy. The notice must not end before the last date of the tenancy set out in clause B4 and must end on the day before the rent is due.

You will still be legally responsible for paying the rent and for all other responsibilities under this agreement until the notice ends and you have moved out of the premises.

Questions:
- I think I'm right and I can move out on the 4/9/2019. Please tell if I'm correct.
- I think that this AST is illegal and unenforceable
- If I move out on the 4/9/2019 my landlord will be unhappy. What can they do to me? Not return the deposit? Get a bailiff on me? Destroy my very high credit score? I'm scared. This is a big company with lawyers and I'm, you know, lost, confused, vulnerable.

I you would like to see the AST (personal data blanked out): AST.pdf

PasturesNew

If you started on 4th, you should move out on the 3rd. (Tip: Imagine it as if you moved in on the 1st of the month, you'd move out on the last day, not the 1st of the following month as that'd be a month and a day).

The 4th is the start of the next month.

If you are still there on the 4th the landlord COULD charge you another full month's rent.

foxreymann

No, no, it has started on the 5/9/2018 and ends on the 4/9/2019

ThePants999

If you've signed a new AST every year, you're entirely right - you can leave at the end of it with no notice whatsoever.

What can an unhappy landlord do to you?
- Not return the deposit: no, but they'll try to find the slightest of reasons to claim on it. Don't give them any, take lots of photos of the fantastic condition you leave it in and contest any claims on it.
- Send a bailiff round: no, bailiffs have to be court-ordered.
- Ruin your credit score: no, they're not a creditor, so they won't be allowed to record anything on your credit history.

So what can they do?
- They can try taking you to court. After all, anyone can take anyone to court, for anything, at any time. They'll lose, and they'll know it so they won't bother in the first place.
- They can provide a poor reference if asked for one in future.

foxreymann

Thank you @ThePants999. I don't care about their references and I'm completing on a house purchase this Friday.

ThePants999

Congratulations!

G_M

PasturesNew wrote: »

If you started on 4th, you should move out on the 3rd. t.

where does he say it started on 4th? OP says ended on 4th, therefore we assume it started on 5th.

Questions:
- I think I'm right and I can move out on the 4/9/2019. Please tell if I'm correct. correct if that is the end date of your current fixed term.That is what 'fixed' means!
- I think that this AST is illegal and unenforceable No. The AST is valid and legal. But that clause is unenforceable.
- If I move out on the 4/9/2019 my landlord will be unhappy. What can they do to me? Not return the deposit?

Yes, possibly. But you will dispute any deduction he makes on that basis via the deposit protection scheme. You will win.

Your deposit IS in a scheme yes? See below.

Get a bailiff on me?
No. Only if it goes to court, AND you lose, AND you refuse to pay.

Destroy my very high credit score?
No. Your credit history is only impacted if it goes to court, AND you lose, AND you refuse to pay.
I'm scared.
No need

This is a big company with lawyers and I'm, you know, lost, confused, vulnerable.

Size of company just means bigger bully. But legally you are in the right and no amount of lawyers will change that.


Now read:
* Deposits: payment, protection and return

foxreymann

G_M wrote: »

I'm scared.
No need

Thank you so much G_M. Your reply are always THE BEST. I'm not scared anymore.

Further questions:
- I'm going to reply to my landlord stating that they are wrong. But I would love to have a proof of that. Which law says that I can move out on the last day of the tenancy? Is it Landlord and Tenant Act 1988? Where is this act is this particular clause?
- Landlord has hundreds or apartments in this area. They basically own a piece of land with houses on it. I want to preapre a leaflet informing other tenants about how they are being ripped off by the landlord. Do you like this idea?

G_M wrote: »

Now read:
* Deposits: payment, protection and return[/COLOR][/COLOR]

I did read it and now understand that deposit is quite safe.

sal_III

Curious that Shelter gives bad advise here:

https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/private_renting/renewing_your_private_tenancy

Options when your fixed term tenancy ends:
If you want to leave:

Many tenancies end automatically if you leave by the last day of the fixed term.

Some contracts continue as periodic tenancies after the fixed term unless you give notice to say you're leaving.

Check your contract before the fixed term ends to see if you have to give notice.

If there is a clause in your agreement, it will tell you how much notice to give.

In reality these clauses will almost certainly be void under the Unfair Contract Terms regulations part of the Consumer Rights Act 2015

Why would you go and drop leaflets to your neighbours? How is your LL ripping you off? You have a contract and if anyone it's you breaking albeit unenforceable clause.

Out of curiosity why didn't you give notice? If anything it's the polite thing to do. If you are completing next Friday, you must have had pretty good idea you will be leaving 18 days ago when the notice was due.

molerat

Both Shelter and Citizen's Advice seem to agree a contractual notice clause at the end of a fixed term is legitimate.


https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/housing/renting-privately/ending-your-tenancy/ending-your-tenancy/

Leaving when your fixed term tenancy ends

You don’t need to give notice to say you’II be leaving on the last day of your fixed term, unless your tenancy agreement says you have to.
It’s best to give your landlord some notice to avoid problems.
Giving notice might help you get a reference or your deposit back quicker.
Contact your nearest Citizens Advice if your tenancy agreement says you need to give notice and you don’t want to.

https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/private_renting/renewing_your_private_tenancy

If you want to leave

Many tenancies end automatically if you leave by the last day of the fixed term.
Some contracts continue as periodic tenancies after the fixed term unless you give notice to say you're leaving.
Check your contract before the fixed term ends to see if you have to give notice.
If there is a clause in your agreement, it will tell you how much notice to give.
It’s a good idea to tell your landlord that you plan to leave even if it's not mentioned in your agreement.

foxreymann

sal_III wrote: »

Why would you go and drop leaflets to your neighbours? How is your LL ripping you off? You have a contract and if anyone it's you breaking albeit unenforceable clause.

Ok, you're right. I've been just angry. I feel like they are ripping us off by with illegal clauses in ASTs.

sal_III wrote: »

Out of curiosity why didn't you give notice? If anything it's the polite thing to do. If you are completing next Friday, you must have had pretty good idea you will be leaving 18 days ago when the notice was due.

Me buying a house depends too much on work on conveyancers for me to give a notice. I'm meant to complete tomorrow but I'm still not sure if this is going to happen or not.