Who will accept a DB to SIPP transfer from "insistent client"

QrizB

Dale72 said:

Just out of curiosity, has anyone come up with any new ways to transfer yet?

Just out of curiosity, how did you get on with opening a stakeholder pension?

Dale72

I haven't had to, I managed to arrange a transfer before the shutter came down.

QrizB

That's good luck

I have no interest in transferring my DB but I went as far as trying to open a stakeholder pension with Standard Life today, since their website invites new customers (and I can surely make it to retirement without access to £16). Unfortunately you can't do it online, only over the phone, and the number they give is their "general enquiries" number not a sales line and so the wait times aren't great. After ten minutes in the queue I decided I was running out of lunch break.

I might try again on Friday when I've got the day off.

Malthusian

QrizB said:

That's good luck

I have no interest in transferring my DB but I went as far as trying to open a stakeholder pension with Standard Life today, since their website invites new customers (and I can surely make it to retirement without access to £16). Unfortunately you can't do it online, only over the phone, and the number they give is their "general enquiries" number not a sales line and so the wait times aren't great. After ten minutes in the queue I decided I was running out of lunch break.

I might try again on Friday when I've got the day off.

Full credit to you for actually putting time and money into this, but if you succeed will it tell us much?

If the stakeholder pension route works, the difficult bit isn't opening a stakeholder, it's persuading the pension company that they must accept your DB transfer, and (if they refuse) persuading the Ombudsman that there is actually a legal obligation on them to do so.

Malthusian

Potentially of interest: anecdotal evidence that the stakeholder escape tunnel has been successfully employed in the past.
Up until this point, I for one had been discussing the stakeholder route (open stakeholder pension with nominal sum without telling the provider that you want to transfer in a DB pension, once the policy is in force instruct the transfer, point them to the legal requirement to accept any transfer if they refuse) on the assumption that it was theoretical and untested. My understanding is now that it is tried and tested.
The fact that this was some years ago and under pre 2015 rules is of no significance; the point is that the stakeholder provider tried to refuse the DB transfer but changed its mind after the legal requirement was pointed out to them. The legal requirement has not changed since 2015.

stardust23

Malthusian said:

the point of paying £20 gross into a stakeholder pension is that it allows you to open a stakeholder pension without alerting the pension provider that it's to transfer in a DB pension (allowing them to refuse your business before the "must accept a transfer from any registered pension scheme" legislation kicks in)

Which specific legislation is that, please?

stardust23

random129 said:

Spot the similarities...

A Nigerian Prince offers you £200,000 if you will help him. All you have to do is pay him a £5,000 admin fee and in return you will receive £200,000. You pay the £5,000 and surprise surprise you don't get the promised £200,000. You have been scammed out of £5,000.

The UK government offers you the opportunity to transfer your £200,000 DB pension fund. All you have to do is pay their friends, I mean an IFA, £5,000 for advice. If the advice is not to transfer don't worry the law still allows you to transfer. You pay the £5,000 and are advised not to transfer. You don't worry because the law is on your side and you can still transfer but the reality is you can't. You have been scammed out of £5,000.

As Charles Dickens wrote about 150 years ago - "The one great principle of the English law is to make business for itself".

Also "The law is a  a* s s ".

Diplodicus

Sounds a great option for doughty insistent clients, doesn't it? Not only do they have to defy advice notionally given in their best interest, they then have to crowbar a DB pension into a decoy stakeholder account and dare the provider to take them to court or, if thwarted, rely on the Ombudsman to force them in. Not sure whether the Ombudsman's backlog is still in months or years.

jamesd

stardust23 said:

Malthusian said:

the point of paying £20 gross into a stakeholder pension is that it allows you to open a stakeholder pension without alerting the pension provider that it's to transfer in a DB pension (allowing them to refuse your business before the "must accept a transfer from any registered pension scheme" legislation kicks in)

Which specific legislation is that, please?

Welfare Reform and Pensions Act 1999 where Part 1 includes

"A pension scheme is a stakeholder pension scheme for the purposes of this Part if it is registered as such a scheme under section 2 and each of the following is fulfilled ...

The seventh condition is that the scheme accepts transfer payments in respect of members’ rights under—

(a)other pension schemes;"

There is a lack of exceptions or subsequent modifications excluding some types of pension schemes like DB and only allowing others.

This is the Act which introduced them and the online version has markup to reflect later changes in law.

stardust23

I enquired with Aviva about Stakeholder Pensions and they said that I can only open one through a Financial Adviser (or an Employer).  Is this correct?

I want to try the DB --> Stakeholder Pension --> SIPP route !

And I do not want to have to pay a single penny more than is necessary.