PCN Appeal to IAS? ES Parking Enforcement

Kingofspain2k1

Hi

I've had a read through the Newbies thread and struggled to find the information relevant to my particular case...

I received a PCN from ES Parking Enforcement in Manchester having stopped on a double yellow so that my girlfriend could get into the car. I had no idea that it was private land nor that a PCN would be issued if I were to stop my car.

The PCN itself shows photos taken a mere 5 seconds apart (and clearly show my gf getting into the car in both the first and last photos in time, according to the date/time stamp burnt into the images)

I appealed to ES. I did not tell them who was driving the vehicle. I cited the lack of any signage informing me of the penalty charges for stopping (the first sign is about 20-30 metres ahead of where the vehicle is stopped and is illegible at that distance, nor upon closer inspection does it make clear that it applies to any land in front of the sign as well as beyond it).

My appeal was immediately rejected by ES. I am tempted to appeal to the IAS as I have already missed the window to pay the £60 early bird fee.

Does anybody have any advice or experience of this kind of PCN scenario?
Should I just pay up?
Would I even win in front of a judge given the circumstances?

I recorded a video travelling down the street in question to show how there is no signage from ES about the potential for PCNs.

I am open to anyone's advice on this!

Many thanks

Redx

As the newbies thread tells you, we do not, repeat not, , recommend an IAS appeal, let a judge decide

Kingofspain2k1

Thanks Redx

I've not been able to find comparable examples where someone has technically done something to generate a PCN but did so without any forewarning. Like I said I have some video evidence to support my argument that there is no clear signage warning drivers about penalties, but I feel uneasy heading off for a court date without anything else in my armoury.

Is it worth noting that they sent the original PCN to my previous address that was registered before I moved house and not to my current address?

Le_Kirk

Save your evidence for the Witness Statement stage at small claims court but in the meantime send a Rectification Notice to the DPO at ES Parking Enforcement requiring them to note your address for service and ERASING your old one.

Assuming it is ES Parking Enforcement LTD of Preston, the e-mail address is: -
[EMAIL="dataprotection@espel.uk"]dataprotection@espel.uk[/EMAIL]

waamo

Haven't found examples of some getting a pcn that they don't want to pay? Just look on the board index there must be a 100 or so pages of them.

At the top of this board is a thread that tells Newbies to read it first. You are now at the debt collectors stage so read up on it.

pogofish

Newbies Sticky 1 2:2 covers your situation completely...?

The_Deep

A judge would most likely consider this a waste of court time, read this

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_minimis

and complain to your MP as nine times out of ten these tickets are scams.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.

Egbert_Nobacon

Both your posts mention penalties.

So have you received a PENALTY charge or a PARKING charge ?

Where exactly did the alleged transgression occur ?

Can you post a photo of the signage and advise the date the DRIVER stopped and the date the NTK was issued to the KEEPER.

Kingofspain2k1

Egbert_Nobacon wrote: »

Both your posts mention penalties.

So have you received a PENALTY charge or a PARKING charge ?

Where exactly did the alleged transgression occur ?

Can you post a photo of the signage and advise the date the DRIVER stopped and the date the NTK was issued to the KEEPER.

Hi Egbert

It's a Parking Charge Notice.

Alleged transgression: 11 July
PCN Letter issued: 17 July (to previous address, so was delayed in receiving the letter)
Appeal to ES: 30 July
ES Reply: 31 July

The site won't let me post a link to a photo. The sign says PRIVATE LAND NO STOPPING. Then smaller text with details around fines. But even the largest text is illegible from the distance between the car and the sign.

Therefore I want to argue:
a) it is illegible from that distance
b) it is the first sign on this road warning of private land and fines. It is fair to assume the information applies to the land beyond the point of the sign not before it.

Also wondering whether the fact the PCN arrived at my previously registered DVLA address and not my current one gives me another point to argue?

Ralph-y

NEWBIES - HOW TO UPLOAD LINKS TO PHOTOS/SCANS TO MSE

To upload a photo/scan link, you first need to host it on a free photo hosting site (like Dropbox, Imurg or Tinypic), copy the URL, paste it here, but change the http to hxxp and we'll do the conversion. Newbies can't directly upload links to photos/scans until they've a few posts under their belt.

Ralph:cool:

Coupon-mad

I recorded a video travelling down the street in question to show how there is no signage from ES about the potential for PCNs.

There must be some signs?

Kingofspain2k1 wrote: »

Also wondering whether the fact the PCN arrived at my previously registered DVLA address and not my current one gives me another point to argue?

Not if that is because you have failed to update the keeper's address with the DVLA (not the same thing as changing the address on your driving licence).

I am tempted to appeal to the IAS

No you are not. Unless your case is really rare and has literally no signs?

as I have already missed the window to pay the £60 early bird fee.

You actually think it's a (worth considering, bargain) early bird offer? We ignore it.

The NEWBIES thread post #3 already tells you to ignore IAS as a stage, unless you are absolutely sure there are NO SIGNS AT ALL which I find hard to believe (you'd be the first).