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UC while on SSP? And other bits

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Good afternoon all

A bit of history first:

I am helping my MIL out with some benefit claims as she is now unable to work until retirement in 18 months time. I don't know much about this myself but helping with forms as much as I can.

My MIL has had fit notes from April this year which her employer will stop paying in November after 28 weeks. The current fit note is for 3 months taking her up to this point. She only works 16 hours per week on low wages but as of now cannot do this anymore.

All UC forms have been filled in and MIL went for an interview today to set up the account properly. Having spoken to MIL it appears both her and the staff didn't really know what to do and in the end she was only advised 'to check the online journal every couple of weeks'.

After the interviewer couldn't assist they asked 'upstairs' and were told MIL is not entitled to anything until the fit note runs out, which leads me to my first query but will put those all below for ease of reading.

MIL also took an ESA form filled and signed but was only told 'it's possible ESA could give more money and it would come off UC benefits' which I was aware of but they didn't take the form to process in anyway, hence another query below!

Health was not discussed in any great detail but was all stated on the UC forms as I believe MIL will be in the LCWRA group eventually, meaning even more questions below.

The questions (finally!!):

1. Is it true MIL is not entitled to anything until fit note runs out? I was of the understanding that even when working you are entitled to UC if you are a low earner, which she is, even though not physically working but still employed.

2. Do you send ESA forms in separately? My understanding was the process could be started by taking to this first interview as the form says to arrange an interview when the form is filled in.

3. MIL was not advised to do anything more regarding health information but I thought form UC50 had to be filled in and then a 3 month check is done before additional payments are added. I was hoping this could be started whilst on SSP so when that runs out MIL may be added to the correct support group (on either ESA or UC).

Thanks for reading, I hope it all makes sense.

Comments

  • calcotti
    calcotti Posts: 15,696 Forumite
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    edited 14 August 2019 at 4:45PM
    kensiko wrote: »
    1. Is it true MIL is not entitled to anything until fit note runs out? I was of the understanding that even when working you are entitled to UC if you are a low earner, which she is, even though not physically working but still employed.

    If she is only getting SSP of £94.25/week then she should be entitled to a UC top up of £60/month unless she has savings over £6,000 which would reduce her entitlement. If she has rent to pay the UC entitlement would be higher to include help with rent. This assumes she lives alone, if she has a partner UC entitlement depends on joint circumstances and partner must claim UC also so they can be assessed as a couple.
    kensiko wrote: »
    2. Do you send ESA forms in separately? My understanding was the process could be started by taking to this first interview as the form says to arrange an interview when the form is filled in.

    ESA and UC are separate claims and, anecdotally, DWP do often seem to want separate appointments. Usually UC will pay more than ESA - but again this may not be the case if MIL has savings which reduce her UC entitlement.

    She cannot receive ESA while receiving SSP. If the employer has issued an SSP1 form confirming the date SSP will end then she can make an advance claim.
    kensiko wrote: »
    3. MIL was not advised to do anything more regarding health information but I thought form UC50 had to be filled in and then a 3 month check is done before additional payments are added. I was hoping this could be started whilst on SSP so when that runs out MIL may be added to the correct support group (on either ESA or UC).
    If DWP have not started one she should ask the DWP to start a Work Capability Assessment. This will result in the UC50 being sent out. In the meantime she must keep supplying a new Fit Note when the old one runs out.
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Some rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • kensiko
    kensiko Posts: 291 Forumite
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    Thank you very much for those answers.

    I will look into starting the work capability assessment immediately then, in the hope of being asked for the UC50.

    The SSP1 I think will be sent nearer the end of the 28 weeks so will then start looking into ESA.

    I think she may have savings that may be slightly above the £6k limit but nowhere near the £16k limit so will also look more into the reductions. As far as I know £4.35 is removed for every £250 'chunk' that is above £6k so will be easy to work out when I know the exact figure.
  • calcotti
    calcotti Posts: 15,696 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    kensiko wrote: »
    I think she may have savings that may be slightly above the £6k limit but nowhere near the £16k limit so will also look more into the reductions. As far as I know £4.35 is removed for every £250 'chunk' that is above £6k so will be easy to work out when I know the exact figure.

    That’s correct except to add that it’s £4.35 for each £250 or part thereof over £6,000. So for £6,510 the deduction would be 3 x £4.35.
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Some rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • kensiko
    kensiko Posts: 291 Forumite
    Tenth Anniversary 100 Posts Combo Breaker Photogenic
    calcotti wrote: »
    If she is only getting SSP of £94.25/week then she should be entitled to a UC top up of £60/month unless she has savings over £6,000 which would reduce her entitlement. If she has rent to pay the UC entitlement would be higher to include help with rent. This assumes she lives alone, if she has a partner UC entitlement depends on joint circumstances and partner must claim UC also so they can be assessed as a couple.

    Hi again

    Could you please explain how you calculated the £60 top up if on SSP. MIL does get £94.25 standard SSP which equates to £377/month. As UC is only £317.82 as standard MIL gets more than this via SSP so no top up would be awarded?

    I neglected to say she is single and owns her own house so is the £60 the maximum calculated if MIL was part of a couple and as single she will indeed get nothing until finishing SSP?

    I have in the meantime asked about the work capability assessment via the journal so hopefully that will get the ball rolling on that front. Will update the thread when I hear back from them.

    And thanks for the extra confirmation regarding the savings calculation.
  • calcotti
    calcotti Posts: 15,696 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    You have forgotten to apply the 63% earnings taper.

    UC standard allowance is £317.82
    SSP is treated as earnings. £94.25/week x 52/12 = £408.42/month.
    Earnings taken into account £408.42.
    Earnings deduction after taper rate applied £408.42 x 63% = £257.30
    UC payable = £317.82 - £257.30 = £60.52/month.

    https://www.entitledto.co.uk/help/Calculating-Universal-Credit
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Some rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • kensiko
    kensiko Posts: 291 Forumite
    Tenth Anniversary 100 Posts Combo Breaker Photogenic
    calcotti wrote: »
    You have forgotten to apply the 63% earnings taper

    UC standard allowance is £317.82
    SSP is treated as earnings. £94.25/week x 52/12 = £408.42/month.
    Earnings taken into account £408.42.
    Earnings deduction after taper rate applied £408.42 x 63% = £257.30
    UC payable = £317.82 - £257.30 = £60.52/month.

    Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh I see thank you very much.
    I have not heard of the earnings taper before!!

    I have more to read up on now it seems, sorry am new to all this and probably asked a very stupid question.
  • calcotti
    calcotti Posts: 15,696 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    edited 15 August 2019 at 2:40PM
    kensiko wrote: »
    sorry am new to all this and probably asked a very stupid question.

    In my opinion, a question to which you do not know the answer is not a stupid question. It may be simple - but not stupid.

    The earnings taper exists so that if people on UC do work they get to keep some of what they earn - otherwise there is no financial incentive to work. Statutory payments like SSP are still treated as earnings so the taper rate is applied to them.

    By contrast unearned income, such as a pension or other benefits like ESA, is deducted in full. This is why claiming ESA as well as UC will not benefit your MIL.

    I should add that my calculation assumes that your MIL does not have more than £6,000 of savings. If she does this would reduce the UC payable by £4.35/month for every £250, or part thereof, above £6,000.
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Some rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • kensiko
    kensiko Posts: 291 Forumite
    Tenth Anniversary 100 Posts Combo Breaker Photogenic
    calcotti wrote: »
    In my opinion, a question to which you do not know the answer is not a stupid question. It may be simple - but not stupid.

    The earnings taper exists so that if people on UC do work they get to keep some of what they earn - otherwise there is no financial incentive to work. Statutory payments like SSP are still treated as earnings so the taper rate is applied to them.

    By contrast unearned income, such as a pension or other benefits like ESA, is deducted in full. This is why claiming ESA as well as UC will not benefit your MIL.

    I should add that my calculation assumes that your MIL does not have more than £6,000 of savings. If she does this would reduce the UC payable by £4.35/month for every £250, or part thereof, above £6,000.

    Perfect! That all makes complete sense, thank you again for all your help.
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