How to accept a company's "full and final" offer without limiting future choices

[Deleted User]

<<This thread has gone into the "In my home" section but really it is a thread about warranties, repairs and a company's liability/responsibility; if there is a more suitable forum then please may a moderator move the thread? Many thanks.>>



Hello all,


Has been a while. Nice to be back. I have an unusual question.


A company sold us an incorrectly designed sewage treatment plant. They have offered a "repair" that requires them to smash out the concrete around the installed system, chop the existing top half out, fix the system, install a new top half and make good. I have said that I believe that their repair is very likely cause additional faults in the retained section of the plastic tank (because of the concrete destruction process) and that they need them to reinstall the whole system; they are refusing to do so. They have now restated their "repair" as their "full and final offer". They have offered a two year warranty on the repair. Now that I reflect upon it their 2-year warranty is concerning: what is the repair? That means just the top half of the tank, which is new, but my concern is about the retained half of the original tank which isn't itself being repaired, just the top edge of it.



There is a second part to this. I am very annoyed with them as a company because of untrue advice their sales rep gave me about the tank I originally asked them to quote for. He told me that that tank was impossible to install on our site. He recommended a different tank (with a, ahem, higher profit margin for the company...). The company have told me that I was supposedly sent a quote for both tanks and decided to go for the cheaper tank; this is absolutely untrue. I have asked them to send me a copy of the quote (because I know it doesn't exist) and they have failed to do so. Sadly, I don't think I've got much leverage on this point -it's just a sore point. What I would like them to do is to install the system that I first asked about. They have rejected this proposal. I'm happy to pay them the additional £500 that it would have cost me.


So, to my questions:


1. How do I accept their full and final offer without limiting my future choices?


2. Can I accept their offer and state that it will only be full and final once the two year warranty period has passed with no further faults being identified (or is that second clause unnecessary because it is already stated in their offer?)?


3. Is it fair for me to compel them to inspect my tank just before the warranty period expires? If the company came back saying that there were no further faults with the tank then I would arrange for an independent assessor to inspect the tank. Thinking about this, I'll get the same independent assessor to inspect the tank as soon as the repair is finished so they have a fair point to compare the two year point against.



I am pleased that they are going to repair the system. I'm frustrated by their actions as a company. I don't know what the MSE attitude is to shaming companies so I have left their name out of this post. If I was purchasing a sewage treatment plant I would want to know the company's name and the product details but maybe that is unfair without them having their chance to respond.

jk0

I don't think I'd be accepting any repairs from that firm myself. I think I would get another firm to fit a new system from scratch, and sue the original firm for my money back.


(As part of the quote for the new system, I would get the new firm to detail the faults in what you have at the moment.)

Risteard

jk0 wrote: »

I don't think I'd be accepting any repairs from that firm myself. I think I would get another firm to fit a new system from scratch, and sue the original firm for my money back.

You would be acting entirely outside the law if you tried that.

tonyh66

Interesting they suggest cutting up a tank? Designed as one piece to avoid leakage, which would void the manufacturer warranty, and give you a useless half arsed warranty invented by themselves. They sound like a bunch of cowboys.
How is the tank incorrectly designed?

jk0

Risteard wrote: »

You would be acting entirely outside the law if you tried that.

LOL. Thanks for trolling. I don't think I suggested anything illegal.


What would you do then?

Heedtheadvice

LOL even louder! :rotfl:


I don't think the implication was that it would be an illegal action?


Under the laws relating to sale of goods faults etc. you do not have a leg to stand on if you do not persue the company to act according to their legal responsibilities (and the contract between the parties ) and give them the chance to do so.


But best advice is easily available online from MSE (main site), gov.co.uk, Which?, Citizens advice, et cetera. Have a read of those (do a search of 'consumer rights').


They do not apply if you are making a business purchase, however, but contract law still does!

jk0

Heedtheadvice wrote: »

LOL even louder! :rotfl:


I don't think the implication was that it would be an illegal action?


Under the laws relating to sale of goods faults etc. you do not have a leg to stand on if you do not persue the company to act according to their legal responsibilities (and the contract between the parties ) and give them the chance to do so.


But best advice is easily available online from MSE (main site), gov.co.uk, Which?, Citizens advice, et cetera. Have a read of those (do a search of 'consumer rights').


They do not apply if you are making a business purchase, however, but contract law still does!

I'm suggesting o/p rejects the sewage system, the same as you would a defective car. You relinquish your right to reject if you let them repair it.

Ectophile

jk0 wrote: »

I'm suggesting o/p rejects the sewage system, the same as you would a defective car. You relinquish your right to reject if you let them repair it.

That assumes the OP has a right to reject. That rather depends on how long the system has been there.

Risteard

jk0 wrote: »

LOL. Thanks for trolling.

It wasn't me trolling.

If you honestly believe that you can counter-charge someone/some company for repairing/replacing something without giving the original contractor the chance to rectify any defects then you shouldn't be giving legal advice, as your advice will land those listening to it in court trying in vain to justify their actions.

[Deleted User]

Thank you all for the replies; I am most grateful. I shall try to address the points raised:

- The tank was installed by an independent groundworks company. The installation of the tank was done correctly.

- The tank was supplied by the manufacturer. They are a massive engineering company based in Ireland (2018 revenue over €4bn). It is the manufacturer who I am having my dispute with.

- There is a separate side to this where the tank was sold to me by Jewsons; other than taking my payment (by credit card), Jewsons have never sent me a receipt nor an email confirmation of my order, despite my asking at least five times that they do so. I think that legally I should be chasing everything via Jewsons as the order was placed with them; however, Jewsons have not responded to a single form of communication that I have sent regarding this.

- The tank was purchased in 2016. It was installed in 2016 and connected to our new sewage system. I identified the fault in late 2016 and reported it then. The manufacturer responded in early 2017 by conducting their "repair" which was an utter bodge of a job. The new sewage system only became active in 2017, which is when the tank first came into proper use. We emptied the tank a year later in 2018 and the company emptying it explained the flaw that I had spotted but also several other aspects to the flaw. I resent my complaint from 2016 about the tank as a formal complaint in 2018 and the company and I have been in discussion since then (it took them three months just to get an independent engineer out to consider how to repair the tank).

- The tank was incorrectly designed as follows. The central access chamber is meant to give one access to four chambers: two are full of those white hair curler like things, the third is the final desludging chamber and then there is the main holding section of the tank. The correct tank design is meant to have the four chambers designed so that a 4" sewage pipe can be inserted into the main chamber to suck all the solids out and - perhaps most importantly - the main section of tank is meant to be accessible so that the 4" pipe can reach underneath the other three chambers. The correct design will prevent the build up of solid waste sections underneath the chambers. In our tank they misaligned the central section that holds the three chambers, which left no access whatsoever to the main chamber; this means that it was impossible to get a 1" pipe into the main chamber, let alone a 4" pipe. It was impossible to get a 4" pipe to access the areas underneath the other chambers.

- This would all be so much easier to explain with the diagrams that I prepared for my complaint!

Is there any formal reason to not mention the company name, product and explain the design flaw?

George_Michael

Risteard wrote: »

It wasn't me trolling.

If you honestly believe that you can counter-charge someone/some company for repairing/replacing something without giving the original contractor the chance to rectify any defects then you shouldn't be giving legal advice, as your advice will land those listening to it in court trying in vain to justify their actions.

I'm sorry Risteard, you may know about electricity but you know nothing about the UK legal system.
The post that you replied to simply stated that:

I don't think I'd be accepting any repairs from that firm myself. I think I would get another firm to fit a new system from scratch, and sue the original firm for my money back./QUOTE]

and although doing what was suggested would unlikely result in the OP getting their money back, there is nothing illegal (or as you put it, "acting outside of the law") in getting the work done by another company and then attempting legal action to recover the costs incurred.

When it comes to taking someone to court in a private prosecution the UK then provided they can cover the cost and correctly complete the application then just about any adult can take action against another adult or company. Whether or not they actually have a chance of winning is a different matter but provided they are not recorded as Vexatious litigants, no laws are being broken by attempting legal action with little or no chance of winning.