Building Regs Confusion

kingdave82

I'm in the process of getting some quotes for the repair/replacement of a conservatory roof and I'm getting a little confused with the building regulations required that the various companies are telling me of.

Bear with me, this may be a long post...

I currently have a cheap, poly-carb roof, on a simple, lean-to type conservatory. I'm looking into replacing this with a lightweight tiled roof, keeping the lean-to style of the conservatory (the space we have available, plus budget wouldn't allow us to do anything else).

My understanding is that because we're looking to put a solid "permanent" roof on this will change the classification from a conservatory to an extension and therefore needs appropriate building regs and approvals for the work to go ahead.

The various companies have all said they will get those regs sorted, and organise any inspections etc that need to be done to get that complete, and that will all come as part of the quoted price, however, one of the companies has told me something that I just want to double check as I can't find any supporting information online about it.

I understand that the approval needs to be completed by either the local council, or an approved third party and the two main players in this are JHAI and LABC which is fine. However, one company has told me that a JHAI certificate is only valid for 2 years, whereas an LABC one is valid for the lifetime of the building. If we go with a company that will go through JHAI and let's say we want to sell the house in 4 years time and we're asked to provide all the necessary certificates and regulations to the prospective buyer, we won't be able to do that as the JHAI certificate will have expired 2 years previously.

Most of the roof replacement companies I've had quotes from appear to go down the JHAI route, but I'm concerned if I go with that I may be stuck in the example scenario in the above paragraph. Is that actually the case, or is the company that told me this just trying twist my arm into going for them with the promise of this lifetime certificate?

If anyone can explain the situation, and what I should actually be looking out for in plain English, I'd be most appreciative.

Thanks!

Davesnave

It's a grey area. No conservatory built in the normal fashion by a conservatory company will meet building regulations appropriate to a conventional house extension, regardless of what sort of roof is put on it as an adaptation.

Similarly, if yours is a lean-to with a polycarb roof it won't really have a tiled roof in the traditional sense of the word 'tiled.'

But these days, perhaps no one will care, because if you come to sell, someone will provide cheap indemnity insurance to you or the buyer against the legal consequences of the local authority acting to enforce the regulations; something that's a very remote possibility. They would only have grounds to do that if you have opened up the rest of the house to this room or extended the heating system in there, because building regs don't apply to what's effectively an outbuilding. Most are far too busy to look at things like that anyway.

So, I don't think it matters much whose cunning scheme you sign up to.


EDIT: What might matter more is what the loss of the light from that transparent roof does to the room behind that structure. I've seen a lovely garden room created from a conservatory which gave someone's living room a permanent air of stygian gloom, so consider all light sources carefully. It's the reason my conservatory has a tinted glass roof.

TELLIT01

The comment about the darkening effect on other rooms is well made. We have a tinted glass roof on our conservatory and light levels in the room 'behind' the conservatory is virtually unaffected. Our neighbours had a tinted polycarb roof on their conservatory and needed to have the light on in their dining room virtually all year. I hate to think how dark it would be with a solid roof.

Owain_Moneysaver

kingdave82 wrote: »

However, one company has told me that a JHAI certificate is only valid for 2 years, whereas an LABC one is valid for the lifetime of the building.

I don't understand that. A Building Regs Certificate is a statement at the date of issue for the work named on the certificate that they comply with Building Regulations . It doesn't "expire".

Perhaps someone is confusing the NHBC 10-year guarantee with LABC. You probably won't get an NHBC guarantee on an extension. Or maybe someone is thinking of the manufacturer's guarantee on the lightweight roofing system used, which might be 2 years or 10 years or nothing if the manufacturer goes out of business next month.

kingdave82

Davesnave wrote: »

It's a grey area. No conservatory built in the normal fashion by a conservatory company will meet building regulations appropriate to a conventional house extension, regardless of what sort of roof is put on it as an adaptation.

Similarly, if yours is a lean-to with a polycarb roof it won't really have a tiled roof in the traditional sense of the word 'tiled.'

But these days, perhaps no one will care, because if you come to sell, someone will provide cheap indemnity insurance to you or the buyer against the legal consequences of the local authority acting to enforce the regulations; something that's a very remote possibility. They would only have grounds to do that if you have opened up the rest of the house to this room or extended the heating system in there, because building regs don't apply to what's effectively an outbuilding. Most are far too busy to look at things like that anyway.

So, I don't think it matters much whose cunning scheme you sign up to.


EDIT: What might matter more is what the loss of the light from that transparent roof does to the room behind that structure. I've seen a lovely garden room created from a conservatory which gave someone's living room a permanent air of stygian gloom, so consider all light sources carefully. It's the reason my conservatory has a tinted glass roof.

TELLIT01 wrote: »

The comment about the darkening effect on other rooms is well made. We have a tinted glass roof on our conservatory and light levels in the room 'behind' the conservatory is virtually unaffected. Our neighbours had a tinted polycarb roof on their conservatory and needed to have the light on in their dining room virtually all year. I hate to think how dark it would be with a solid roof.

We're not too fussed about the light level - even with a solid roof, it still has huge windows on 2 sides to allow light in, and for about 60% of the day it is in direct sunlight - we expect to need to have a lamp in there, but that's exactly what our living room is like at the moment anyway.

We've considered tinted glass too, but how effective are these at sound insulation? We leave near the approach of Manchester Airport, so cutting as much of the noise from passing aircraft as possible is a must, as well as the sound from Manchester's notorious tropical downpours!

The roof style we've been looking at are SupaLite - or very similar systems. Not tiled like an actual roof, but with a similar look, very lightweight and strong, which can be supported effectively by the windows we currently have supporting the poly-carb.

https://www.supaliteroof.co.uk/

kingdave82

Owain_Moneysaver wrote: »

I don't understand that. A Building Regs Certificate is a statement at the date of issue for the work named on the certificate that they comply with Building Regulations . It doesn't "expire".

Perhaps someone is confusing the NHBC 10-year guarantee with LABC. You probably won't get an NHBC guarantee on an extension. Or maybe someone is thinking of the manufacturer's guarantee on the lightweight roofing system used, which might be 2 years or 10 years or nothing if the manufacturer goes out of business next month.

Hence my question.

I don't think the salesman that told me his company is "the only one in the UK that is able to provide a full, lifetime of the property, building regulations certificate" was deliberately trying to mislead me. It may be he's misunderstood the regulations or confused guarantees on the work/materials with a certificate that everything is compliant, but I wanted to check. However, he showed me in his little sales pack, an example of a JHAI certificate with a start date and end date 2 years later, and definitely said that with is changing in classification from a conservatory to an extension with the addition of a solid roof, I would need to declare the additional "living space" in the property, this would need to get LABC approval, and a JHAI certification wouldn't do that - it would only be valid for 2 years, and if we sold within 2 years of finishing the job, no problem, but after 2 years I would need to produce valid certificates that the building work was up to regs, it was declared as additional living space and only his company currently do that in the UK.

All the companies I've asked have told me that the roof comes with a 10 year guarantee too which is fine.

I may ring the local council's planning/regulations team to clarify from them what they would want/need.

Doozergirl

He sells roofs. He isn't a property professional, has probably never made an application to building control personally, and probably doesn't understand what he's talking about.

He might be able to talk about the properties of the roof, but he certainly can't speak for the rest of your conservatory, which may be woefully inadequate to pass as an extension.

I would certainly contact your LA before committing to anything if you're expecting it to pass as an extension.

I'm thoroughly confused by the JHAI thing too. Building Control is a permanent thing that shows something was built to an approved standard.

I wouldn't be using a private building inspector at the moment anyway. There are issues with insurance and a few have gone under.

kingdave82

Right, I've just got off the phone with the planning team at the local council and they've told me that with what I'm planning on having done, I don't need any regulations or checks whatsoever.

That would change however if I were to remove the external quality doors that currently lead from our living room into the conservatory, or if I installed a radiator that is controlled from the central thermostat.

In other words, it looks like I can cut the cost that these companies are quoting by removing the inspection and certification fees that are in the price.

The planning officer I spoke to has also never heard of the "2 year JHAI" certificate. She said, like those above, that JHAI is just an approved 3rd party inspector who issue a certificate to say that at the time of building, it conformed to the regulations in place at that time.

Davesnave

kingdave82 wrote: »

RI don't need any regulations or checks whatsoever.

That would change however if I were to remove the external quality doors that currently lead from our living room into the conservatory, or if I installed a radiator that is controlled from the central thermostat.

This is what I told you in para 3 of my answer.


I expect the roof is thermally better than glass and meets a minimum standard for thermal efficiency, but the roof is only one part of the building; walls floors and foundations are all equally important if you wanted to meet building regs. Fortunately, you don't.

Owain_Moneysaver

kingdave82 wrote: »

Right, I've just got off the phone with the planning team at the local council and they've told me that with what I'm planning on having done, I don't need any regulations or checks whatsoever.

Do you mean planning or building control? They are completely separate departments and completely separate regulations.

kingdave82

Owain_Moneysaver wrote: »

Do you mean planning or building control? They are completely separate departments and completely separate regulations.

Building Control, definitely