No new 1p or 2p coins produced last year - MSE News

MisterMotivated

masonic wrote: »

Although the money in our pocket becoming 10 times more valuable overnight could create a few issues.

No more so than adjusting all sale prices on non-10p-multiple item throughout the country, or having to continually round the total on any random-value transaction.

The most practical solution is to simply withdraw the low denomination coins. Many countries have done this, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Withdrawal_of_low-denomination_coins

In most of the countries listed that have stopped minting new coins, they remain legal tender and haven't officially been withdrawn. I'd question the usefulness of this table as a reference anyway, given that it lists the pre-decimal farthing as an example of a withdrawn UK coin. I do, however, find this comment noteworthy:

Wikipedia wrote:

Countries in the Eurozone have had different responses to the issue; according to James Debono writing for Malta Today, "scrapping the coins is considered unthinkable for Germany where both consumers and retailers are obsessed with precise pricing

In 30-40 years, when your 4 pints of milk that costed precisely £1.14638741456 in todays money costs exactly £11.4638741456 to produce, rounding up to £12 doesn't seem excessive, as the shop selling it and the producer should be making a profit on the sale. This would amount to 4.7% shared between them. If I'm still around in that future (and actually drank milk), I'd happily pay £13 if that made the industry a little less cut-throat than it is today.

Saying that increasing the price by 4% - or over 13% as in your example - might stop the dairy industry being so cutthroat, would be of little comfort to those who can barely afford milk as it is. And driving up prices solely so we can say we don't need low value coins any more seems rather ridiculous to me. Regardless, the competition in the dairy market is a separate issue and milk was only used as an off-the-cuff example; price rounding would affect every item on sale.

There is no need to do a lot of work getting rid of them, all that needs to be done is to stop minting them and withdraw their status as legal tender.

How to physically get rid of the coins is not my concern here; it doesn't address the issue of how to pay in cash for an item currently costing £0.55 (or paying the 5p plastic bag charge) when there are no 5p (or 1p) coins in circulation.

If you dislike small denomination coins, you don’t have to use them; just pay for everything by card or ensure anything you pay cash for adds up to a multiple of 10p. In the meantime, I stand by my view that in a system that allows pricing to be specified to 2 decimal places of its main currency, there is still a requirement for a single penny value coin to facilitate payment of any cash amount

masonic

Re: "scrapping the coins is considered unthinkable for Germany where both consumers and retailers are obsessed with precise pricing" - :rotfl: Good to see stereotypes are alive and well.

MisterMotivated wrote: »

How to physically get rid of the coins is not my concern here; it doesn't address the issue of how to pay in cash for an item currently costing £0.55 (or paying the 5p plastic bag charge) when there are no 5p (or 1p) coins in circulation.

Rounding solves these issues. I think the plastic bag charge should probably be raised, but failing that, it is likely the plastic bag won't be the only thing the shopper is buying.

In the meantime, I stand by my view that in a system that allows pricing to be specified to 2 decimal places of its main currency, there is still a requirement for a single penny value coin to facilitate payment of any cash amount

I don't disagree with that statement. Perhaps you misunderstand my view, so here it is again: the system should not allow billing to 2 decimal places, but instead the final price charged should be to 1 decimal place, as that would be sufficient. I have no issue with components of a bill being given to 2 decimal places, or even more than 2 decimal places, as happens in a couple financial accounts I use, and of course happens for energy in which unit prices are usually given to 5 decimal places in pounds. As you've suggested to me above, this would allow those who were minding the pennies to ensure that their bill adds up to a multiple of 10p, at least to the nearest penny.

We seem to be in agreement that there should be a limit to the precision of a bill - we just differ on what that limit should be.

MisterMotivated

masonic wrote: »

Rounding solves these issues.

It also increases costs unnecessarily on countless items. Rounding every item to the nearest 10p will have a cumulative effect, and rounding totals at the till adds unnecessary complexity in a variety of ways. Think of the posters on here sharing their strategies for paying for items individually or in groups to maximise the rounding effects on their shopping. Not to mention how retailer calculate margins/account for the variations in income.

I think the plastic bag charge should probably be raised, but failing that, it is likely the plastic bag won't be the only thing the shopper is buying.

Though if the charge isn't raised, you'd be relying on the shopper buying something else ending in 5p to round it up, or having to add an extra calculation at the till that results in one party losing out, albeit by a small amount each time.

We seem to be in agreement that there should be a limit to the precision of a bill - we just differ on what that limit should be.

Yes, I'd concur with that. I just don't see the massive benefit in changing from 2 to 1 decimal places when there are still so many non-10p-multiple (and even sub-10p) priced items at the minute. Any reduction in precision would invariably result in prices rising.

Currency subdivisions based on 100 also make sense where percentages are involved, which have the potential to produce amounts to 2 decimal places, such as the 4p interest gained on the few pounds sat in my Tesco current account yesterday.:rotfl:

Anyway, let's agree to disagree and enjoy the weekend.

Flobberchops

Zero_Sum wrote: »

I know that cash is being used less & less, but the lack of minting £2 coins is a strange one, as there really is a shortage of them. I know a few people who save them (including my OH) which is possibly talking loads out of circulation
When I go to the local market for fruit & veg, every time i take a peek in the till, the number of £2 coins in there is in single figures. All other coins & notes the sections are full.

It's my understanding there's not much demand for them. Working in a bank, the majority of coin is drawn by business customers, and they rarely request bags of £2. Pound coins, they'll take our entire stock if we let them. I gather their customers don't like getting them in change - they'd rather a fiver, or failing that several pounds. Not sure if the coin itself is too big, or if people prefer having pound coins for use as trolley/locker tokens, or what, but it's ultimately consumer demand (or the lack of it). As inflation carries on perhaps the £2 will eventually become more popular?