Parked 1 minute too early.

skilledpark

Hey guys, I've just received a parking charge notice from ParkingEye and was wondering if I have the grounds to appeal because I feel it was issued unfairly.

The situation is like this:

• I've arrived at ParkingEye operated car park at 17:57.
• Purchased a ticket for 3 hours (£4.50).
• After 2 hours realized that I won't be able to get back to my car in time therefore checked if I can extend the time online.
• Found the land owners website that indicated that I can pay by coins, credit card or "paybyphone".
• Entered my details to the "paybyphone" website and saw that by paying for a single hour (£3.00) I could park until morning.
• As I already payed for 3 hours and had another hour left on the clock decided that I should be ok, the "paybyphone" website did not display any conditions for this to be untrue.
• The receipt only had the purchase time (17:59) displayed on it and no duration.

Turns out the overnight stay only applies for entries after 18:00. I literally was one minute too early. Also I payed more than the overnight stay costs. This makes me feel that the penalty is rather unfair, but do I have any grounds for a successful appeal?

Redx

no idea because we dont know if PE followed POFA or not, nor have we seen the signage , plus we dont know if it was a real penalty or just a parking charge notice (you said penalty)

if it is a penalty then they cannot rely on Beavis

skilledpark

Thank you for your reply Redx. Please see additional information below.

• I'm not a lawyer but I believe that POFA was followed.
• The signage in the car park clearly states that overnight tariff of £3.00 applies for entries after 18:00, however there was no such mention on the "paybyphone" website.
• The letter I received is parking charge notice.
• The car park is ANPR camera operated and according to ParkingEye I overstayed for over an hour.

I paid more than the overnight fee and just because I did it one minute too early they are charging me £100 extra and that seems a bit unfair.

Coupon-mad

just because I did it one minute too early

Stop saying that and DO NOT say such a thing in any appeal.

You are assuming their clocks were right, to the second.
Highly unlikely!

Do you mean you paid at what the ticket said was 17.59pm?

Are you saying the PCN arrived within the 14 days and had the POFA on the back?

skilledpark

Yes I paid at 17:59 (I have the receipt) and the overnight tariff starts at 18:00.
Not sure exactly what you mean by POFA but PNC arrived within 14 days, on the front it has my car pictures with number-plates, date, time, location, discount and on the back lengthy text which includes following paragraphs: Parking Charge Information, Protection of Freedoms Act, Appeals & Complaints Procedure and Privacy Information.

Coupon-mad

Yes I paid at 17:59 (I have the receipt)

Not the same thing as the way I put it:

Do you mean you paid at what the ticket said was 17.59pm?

Anyway yes that is a POFA PCN, so you may as well appeal as driver and say you paid at 6pm going by your watch, so that allowed you overnight parking even though the tariff board was confusing.

Upload to PE a screenshot of the proof that the "paybyphone" website says that by paying for a single hour, a driver could park until morning.

Upload a copy of your ticket and say their clock was wrong by up to 60 seconds and you paid at 6pm, and you require proof of their clock timing checks if they disagree.

There's not much else you can appeal on, so insist it was 6pm.

NOT THIS, NOT AT ALL:

just because I did it one minute too early they are charging me £100 extra and that seems a bit unfair.

You could drive in with your dashcam clock set to GMT and drive over to the machine and film on your phone, the time on that, then show your dashcam time - it would be great POPLA evidence if it's a minute out!

But no staying longer than 5 mins to do that.

JesterShoe

I totally agree with Sensei Coupon-mad. If it was me I would fight his all the way.

Coming from an engineering background I would to ask the following points;
1. When was the system last calibrated, by whom and to what standard?
2. All systems have a tolerance by which they operated, every clock looses time or gains time. What is the tolerance of the equipment in use?

If they are using a computer based system this also might help.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/security/threat-protection/security-policy-settings/maximum-tolerance-for-computer-clock-synchronization

I would interpret this to mean: If you have a computer controlling the ticket machine and one controlling the ANPR then there can be 5 mins between the clock times on each system.

skilledpark

Thank you all for your replies, based on them I will file my appeal with the following points:

1. It was past 18:00 when I entered the car park according to my phones watch.
2. Using of the ticket machine was confusing as it did not allow me to select overnight tariff, so I selected a payment option way above the overnight stay (£4.50) to be sure I am covered.
3. Once the ticket was printed it did not display the duration or exit time only the fee paid and the machine time which was 17:59.
4. I have checked the "paybyphone" website a bit later and it was showing me that the the overnight rate was (£3.00).
5. Request of all system (camera and pay machine) tolerance and last calibration proof. If it is computerised system - maximum tolerance group policy settings.

I am also thinking of adding few more points as they are true in my opinion:

• My intent was to use the overnight parking option that's why I arrived at approximately 18:00 and I believe that my contract with the ParkingEye was made based on the overnight tariff.
• There is no loss on the car park operator side as I have paid more then the overnight fee therefore the parking charge (even if I did arrive 3 minutes earlier that I expected) is unreasonable.

Or should I leave the last two out? Please let me know your thoughts.

The_Deep

PE signs are a disgrace imo. I am sure a judge would agree that they are valid contractually, read this:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5972164/parking-eye-signs-oxford-road-reading

Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams so complain to your MP.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.

Redx

1 should be phones clock, not watch, or your wristwatch, one or the other, or both for that matter

As the total amount paid and break it down into 2 tranches as well, to show willingness to pay

Do not mention no loss to the landowner or you may fall into the Beavis trap which PE won 3 times in court, this isn't about any loss so stick to the main arguments based on timing etc, no distractions

Do not mention the one minute argument you put forward, keep the ambiguity in the mix

KeithP

I would adjust your latest post, and your thinking, as follows:

Thank you all for your replies, based on them I will file my appeal with the following points:

1. It was past 18:00 when I entered the car park according to my phones watch.
2. Using of the ticket machine was confusing as it did not allow me to select overnight tariff, so I selected a payment option way above the overnight stay (£4.50) to be sure I am covered.
3. Once the ticket was printed it did not display the duration or exit time only the fee paid and the machine time[STRIKE] which was 17:59[/STRIKE].
4. I have checked the "paybyphone" website a bit later and it was showing me that the the overnight rate was (£3.00).
5. Request of all system (camera and pay machine) tolerance and last calibration proof. If it is computerised system - maximum tolerance group policy settings.

I am also thinking of adding few more points as they are true in my opinion:

• My intent was to use the overnight parking option that's why I arrived at [STRIKE]approximately[/STRIKE] 18:00 and I believe that my contract with the ParkingEye was made based on the overnight tariff.
• There is no loss on the car park operator side as I have paid more then the overnight fee therefore the parking charge (even if I did arrive 3 minutes earlier that I expected) is unreasonable.

Or should I leave the last two out? Please let me know your thoughts.