Premier Park DEFENCE for parking fine – claim form date 17/07

Coupon-mad

A bit different from the norm but the keyfob gave access to that area of visitor bays:

Background:
- At the time we lived in a block of flats that had around 10 parking spaces (no visitor bays) allocated to 28 flats, accessible via a fob activated gate only
- The fob gave access to a road that went off the left to our block’s parking and straight on to the neighbouring block of flats parking which had allocated bays and 2x visitor bays

So the OP simply puts that in the defence too, and says there was nothing to suggest the visitor bays were not for the use of all residents with key fob access.

sunroom

I am immensely grateful and have worked on all of the points you have noted but sadly my efforts don't seem to be recognised in my initial draft of my defence.

I went back on all the feedback you provided Coupon Mad and asked you for additional help because I did not know what "the usual bit about proprietary of interest" is - I have to so many posts, tried to search by this term and used Ctrl+F but am no further forward.

You make it sound so simple, but it isn't that straight forward for me as I have explained. It is like a foreign language.

Le_Kirk

7. The Claimant is put to strict proof that it has sufficient proprietary interest in the land, or that it has the necessary authorisation from the landowner to issue parking charge notices, and to pursue payment by means of litigation.

From the NEWBIE sticky post # 2 defence examples.

The_Deep

These "own space" tickets are 99% of the time scams. Judges know this and treat them accordingly.

Have you read this?

https://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2016/11/residential-parking.html

Most cases are won by the resident as the lease/primacy takes precedence over the scammers so called contract.

Coupon-mad

It is very simple, just use bargepole's example defence about having a key fob, if this is what your entrance is like, and add in the stuff we've said.

sunroom

Response from MA regarding my request for a copy of the lease received a short moment ago:

“However I am not clear where you were parked when you received your parking charge notice, but for your information I confirm that the car parking spaces located in the small car park area that is accessed off the private roadway and adjacent to the entrance doors in XX apartment building falls within the “estate” owned by our company. Parking in the spaces is on a first come basis and always subject to displaying a valid parking permit - this arrangement has been in place since a good time before 2015 when you received to parking charge notice (see background to the arrangements below).

As all residents of XX are aware (and typically they advise any of their visitors) there is not (and never has been) any reserved or visitor allocated parking spaces in the car park area. Please note that this arrangement is reflected in all the leases for XX and owners accept that if there are no vacant spaces available at the time they access the car park their vehicle should be parked elsewhere and not within the XX or adjoining YY “estate” areas.

The background to the arrangements with the contractors being introduced were due to issues that were experienced by non residents illegally parking in the XX Car park spaces, plus at times the double parking of vehicles within the manoeuvring area outside of marked spaces which was causing problems of safe and easy access and egress, that were reported in 2008 to NAME and I by a number of apartment owners living in XX. As a result of polite notices that we initially erected advising on car park arrangements being ignored a formal car parking permit and policing arrangement (with the threat of possible fines being issued by the contractors by way of a parking charge notice for any offenders) was introduced. The introduction of these arrangements was with a consensus of support by XX residents and subsequently all folk considering acquiring a home that became available due to resale thereafter were made fully aware of the arrangements.

Since introduction of the arrangements the use of the car park and parking within a space has been conditional to the clear displaying of a valid parking space permit in vehicles that are solely used/owned by resident/s of XX. Only one permit per apartment is issued. Typically a permit is issued immediately at the time a new resident moves in to their apartment and also is reissued at time when a resident may change their old vehicle for a new vehicle (the issue of a revised/new permit is conditional on the old permit with previous registration vehicle details being returned to our office).

Clear advice is given to the apartment owner/s that the use of the permit is for a single vehicle and is not interchangeable and thus may not be displayed in other vehicles the apartment owner may use/own or their visitor’s vehicle/s. When a permit is issued by our office and sent out to an apartment owner NAME makes a record of the ticket issued noting full details of vehicle and the registration so that we can contact the apartment owner should there be any problems or issues relating to their personal vehicle parking and to help the contractors parking officers when they carry out an inspection (typically these inspections are made at random times).

MY PARTNER, as the owner of apartment NUMBER, would clearly have been aware of the parking arrangements and rules at the time you received your ticket and we would have expected that you and any visitors would have been made aware by him of the rules and risk of fine for non compliance. Clear signage is (and has always been since introduction of the permit and policing arrangements carried out by the contractor) erected at the entrance to the car park to assist vehicle drivers.

Unfortunately I have to advise that in my opinion (and assuming you were parked in the area of the XX “estate” without a valid permit) unless you can prove to the car parking contracting company why you had very good (and possibly exceptional) reasons why you had parked at the time without displaying a valid permit, then it is probably best that you settle the charge as soon as possible.

We are sorry that the above may not be what you were hoping to hear, but hope the information assists you on how may best for you to proceed with the matter.”

sunroom

I would conclude from the above that I can use the parking there by de facto, but could not add any further information in relation to the lease? The have refused to provide me with a copy unless I get a solicitor to contact their solicitor....

NeilCr

The_Deep wrote: »

These "own space" tickets are 99% of the time scams. Judges know this and treat them accordingly.

Have you read this?

https://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2016/11/residential-parking.html

Most cases are won by the resident as the lease/primacy takes precedence over the scammers so called contract.

Sorry, The Deep

I am a bit lost (nothing unusual!). Can you clarify how this is an "own space" ticket please?

NeilCr

Sunroom

Have you a witness to your illness. If you have I'd be inclined to go back to the MA and say that you did have a good and exceptional reason for parking there and would they like to support you/cancel the ticket. You have, already, eloquently explained it here

In fact - witness or no witness - I'd go back with that

Is there no way you can get your own copy of the lease? Has your partner got rid? Do you know anyone still living there who would let you look at theirs? They will be the same

Coupon-mad

The introduction of these arrangements was with a consensus of support by XX residents and subsequently all folk considering acquiring a home that became available due to resale thereafter were made fully aware of the arrangements.

And politely ask for a copy of this consensus or the minutes from the meeting if it was verbal consensus. And a copy of information that residents were sent and how this was drawn to attention of any new residents.

You may have to get your partner to ask, if you are not the resident.

I'd argue as well, as one point of defence, that you were a visitor of you are not the resident!