Determination of a boundary

NeverTooLate

We are buying a house where the current owner (now deceased) sold part of his garden to a neighbour in 2014. There is a low chain link fence marking the boundary, the house we are buying is not registered at LR yet - our solictor will do that.


The LR Map Search Snapshot shows the boundary to be a straight line from the end of the neighbours (old) garden to the far fence, however google satellite pics show that fence has been put at an angle towards our house, therefore making our plot smaller than it should be (compared to the LR printout).


I have mentioned it to our solicitor and she says there's not much we can do except talk to the neighbour and if he agrees to move the fence then we can fill out a form at LR.


My initial plan of action is to knock on the neighbour's door, smile and be friendly and ask him.
Anything else I should do before buying?

eddddy

I think you may be heading for a neighbour dispute before you even buy the property.

Land registry plans only show general boundaries - they're not necessarily precise.

It's probably better to accept that the boundary is where the fence is. (I guess that's where you assumed it was when you viewed the house, and made an offer.)

G_M

NeverTooLate wrote: »

We are buying a house where the current owner (now deceased) sold part of his garden to a neighbour in 2014. There is a low chain link fence marking the boundary, the house we are buying is not registered at LR yet - our solictor will do that.
I'd have thought that in 2014 when the plot was sold, the property would have had to be subject to compulsory 1st registration.....

The LR Map Search Snapshot shows the boundary to be a straight line from the end of the neighbours (old) garden to the far fence,

* is this a LR search for your unregistered property?.......
* or for your neighbour's property?
* Is it for the pre or post 2014 plot sale>

however google satellite pics show that fence has been put at an angle towards our house, therefore making our plot smaller than it should be (compared to the LR printout).
what exactly was sold in 2014? Perhap the sale was for a slice of land angled in that way? Have you seen the sale details?


I have mentioned it to our solicitor and she says there's not much we can do except talk to the neighbour and if he agrees to move the fence then we can fill out a form at LR.
but it sounds like the LR Map is more likely to be right ("The LR Map .. shows the boundary to be a straight line").

My initial plan of action is to knock on the neighbour's door, smile and be friendly and ask him.
Anything else I should do before buying?

Buy the neighbour a cake.
And the seller.

NeverTooLate

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

We are buying a house where the current owner (now deceased) sold part of his garden to a neighbour in 2014. There is a low chain link fence marking the boundary, the house we are buying is not registered at LR yet - our solictor will do that.
I'd have thought that in 2014 when the plot was sold, the property would have had to be subject to compulsory 1st registration.....

Is that what's supposed to happen even if it's just a garden sale?

The LR Map Search Snapshot shows the boundary to be a straight line from the end of the neighbours (old) garden to the far fence,

* is this a LR search for your unregistered property?.......
* or for your neighbour's property?
* Is it for the pre or post 2014 plot sale

I'm not sure what this piece of paper that I have is, the solicitor printed it out when I was at her office, it says 'Mapsearch Snapshot' on it and has our property in the middle in white (unregistered) and the others around it in red (registered).
When I downloaded the title plans from LR for all the neighbours, they do not show the garden as being sold - ie it's not in the neighbours boundary.

however google satellite pics show that fence has been put at an angle towards our house, therefore making our plot smaller than it should be (compared to the LR printout).
what exactly was sold in 2014? Perhap the sale was for a slice of land angled in that way? Have you seen the sale details?

No haven't seen sale details - I guess the solicitor has seen them, she said that there are no measurements on the plan attached to the transfer but the colour plan shows that the boundary line from the neighbour is a straight line.

I think you may be heading for a neighbour dispute before you even buy the property.

Land registry plans only show general boundaries - they're not necessarily precise.

It's probably better to accept that the boundary is where the fence is. (I guess that's where you assumed it was when you viewed the house, and made an offer.)

You are quite right, there will be no dispute and we will accept the boundary where it is if that's what the neighbour wants - however we might want to make sure that the LR docs match up with reality for when we want to sell again.

princeofpounds

You might want to pop over to gardenlaw boundaries forum and read the stickies about boundaries, as well as anything else.


You don't need to freak out about this, but you will need to investigate. This has the hallmarks of a boundary dispute, but it also sounds like it may be long-settled. It could also be a simple sale of some garden, but the funny angle makes that a bit less likely.


The boundaries that you see on the land registry are indicative of general boundaries only. The situation on the ground can be different, and generally-speaking it is the situation on the ground that takes precedence.


Get your solicitor to enquire in writing about the full history of this boundary, why the boundary on the ground does not match the title map, and any land transactions. The land transaction from 2014 should have been registered with the land registry. It may not be attached to your neighbour's title deeds though, it could remain separate.


As suggested, it would be a good idea to speak to the neighbor. You'll probably figure out very quickly if this was a dispute, and if so, how resolved it is. The key is to understand if they are happy with the situation as it stands - sometimes when ownership changes hands unsatisfied people might want to take another bite of the cake, so to speak. Also, get photos of the situation on exchange if you want to be ultra-cautious, so if the boundary moves again you have evidence.

NeverTooLate

You might want to pop over to gardenlaw boundaries forum and read the stickies about boundaries, as well as anything else.

Will do.

You don't need to freak out about this, but you will need to investigate. This has the hallmarks of a boundary dispute, but it also sounds like it may be long-settled. It could also be a simple sale of some garden, but the funny angle makes that a bit less likely.

I really don't think it's anything sinister - the old gentleman who sold the garden couldn't manage the size of it any more and I think the fence went up where it was easiest. At first glance the fence is so insignificant you can't see it, so I think relations with the neighbour were good.

Get your solicitor to enquire in writing about the full history of this boundary, why the boundary on the ground does not match the title map, and any land transactions. The land transaction from 2014 should have been registered with the land registry. It may not be attached to your neighbour's title deeds though, it could remain separate.

This is the only part I'm concerned about - I thought it would be on the title plan for the neighbours property. Will get solicitor to chase.