In work poverty due to overpriced housing costs

lisyloo

ska_lover wrote: »

You really get to see and understand how a person can be so disadvantaged from the offset - and how, as humanity, we can stand by and not help,

I’d be interested in understanding more about why these people fall through our safety net and don’t get housing benefit.

Can you give examples?

westernpromise

Kim_kim wrote: »

It’s our national shame that we have so many homeless, so many sofa surfing and so many (especially children) living in private rented accommodation with 6 month tenancies.(

I don't feel ashamed, but then I'm in that minority who are net payers of income tax, so I do actually make a contribution. The people who should be really ashamed are the 60% who are net takers of income tax and who take out of the pot leaving less for others.

lisyloo

westernpromise wrote: »

I don't feel ashamed, but then I'm in that minority who are net payers of income tax, so I do actually make a contribution. The people who should be really ashamed are the 60% who are net takers of income tax and who take out of the pot leaving less for others.

I don’t think that’s fair.
Plenty of those 60% work hard (for example my MIL who worked from 14-72, many of those years with arthritis).
Some people just aren’t going to earn as much as others and if they are working as hard as they can then they shouldn’t be ashamed.
The 60% net takers should consider their position before moaning though.

SingleSue

Kentish_Dave wrote: »

The OP and some responses do come across as overly entitled.

I’ve met many people who messed around at school, didn’t do higher education, do the least possible at work while moaning about the management and then act surprised when they can’t buy a nice three bedroom semi in Guildford.

On the flip side I’ve several friends from my state comp in the North who’ve got up every day from when they were a child, done the very best that they can, and now have a great career, a happy family life, and a big family home paid off.

Moaning about not having what you want is pathetic. If you want it, plan how to get it, and put in the decades of work needed to get there.

Delay having children, work the second job, get the qualifications, go the extra mile at work but for god’s sake stop whining on the internet about life not being fair.

You were born into a rich, stable country with a strong rule of law, good state education and a generous safety net just in case it all goes wrong.

If you are healthy of body and mind then it takes a special kind of person to not succeed in the UK today.

I studied hard at school, I put in the hard work in my career by working all the hours I could and went the extra mile until I was a high rate tax payer....unfortunately however, we were then hit with disabilities which derailed everything.

On paper, I have failed. I am now in a minimum wage, very part time hours job and live in social housing, in reality though my life just took a different turn and I am proud of what I have achieved on my alternative path.

I'm not jealous of others though, life is life and sometimes it throws you lemons (or as ex hubby used to say "S**t happens")

Arklight

westernpromise wrote: »

I don't feel ashamed, but then I'm in that minority who are net payers of income tax, so I do actually make a contribution. The people who should be really ashamed are the 60% who are net takers of income tax and who take out of the pot leaving less for others.

Except people's value to society often isn't coupled to their remuneration.

For example there were very well compensated people who are almost completely socially useless at best, and who fulfill the definition of a parasite at worst. Landlords, bankers, estate agents, network marketers, reality TV stars, the new Prime Minister.

Then there are people who are very useful, who we actually need, who aren't paid nearly as much. Nurses. Teachers. Agriculturalists, researchers.

lisyloo

Arklight wrote: »

Except people's value to society often isn't coupled to their remuneration.

This is true, but aren’t people ultimately responsible for their own choices? (subject to the limit of their capabilities)

So if they choose to be a nurse (for example) then they might have to give up on the idea of owning in the most expensive parts of the country like Surrey. Of course they can be a nurse and own in very many other places.

We can’t have it all I.e. choose to have jobs we love and own wherever we want.

Many of those in higher paid jobs sacrifice enjoyment or intrinsic job satisfaction. There is often a correlation between pay and lack of intrinsic job satisfaction. Salaries are higher for a reason.

Why are people not responsible for their own career (and other) choices? (Subject to any limitations they have).

MobileSaver

ska_lover wrote: »

we can stand by and not help, but even worse, judge. This could happen to literally any of us

I think it would do a lot of people good, to spend some time with the homeless. Get to understand how things got so bad

As you work with a homeless charity, would you disagree that many homeless people are in the situation they are in because of bad choices they themselves made in the past?

Maybe I'm heartless but I do not have too much sympathy for people who went down the path of drink, drugs, gambling or criminality while I worked my backside off every day for years and made sacrifices to get to where I am today.

Queenriderbrekke

Partly what has changed is peoples expectations.

When my husband and I married and started on the property ladder we had a registry office wedding and a reasonably cheap little evening party with a buffet. Nowadays many couples seem to think they need to spend absolutely thousands on stag/hen parties/weddings/honeymoons.

It was a struggle to get the deposit for a house but we managed it by playing monopoly and chess in the evenings instead of going to the pub or out for meals on dates:)

When we moved into our house, we couldn't afford furniture so only thing we had new was the oven.

Second hand washing machine (Twin Tub then lol) with a leak that you had to mop up after using. Carpets that other relatives had stored in their lofts when no longer needed and a worse for the wear set of awful brown and metal chair and sofa.

Not many make do and mend these days and tend to want it all with no compromise.

Arklight

lisyloo wrote: »

This is true, but aren’t people ultimately responsible for their own choices? (subject to the limit of their capabilities)

So if they choose to be a nurse (for example) then they might have to give up on the idea of owning in the most expensive parts of the country like Surrey. Of course they can be a nurse and own in very many other places.

We can’t have it all I.e. choose to have jobs we love and own wherever we want.

Many of those in higher paid jobs sacrifice enjoyment or intrinsic job satisfaction. There is often a correlation between pay and lack of intrinsic job satisfaction. Salaries are higher for a reason.

Why are people not responsible for their own career (and other) choices? (Subject to any limitations they have).

As far as I see it, money exists because as a society we've (mostly mutually) decided it's the best way we can think of to run ourselves. Different professions have been rewarded differently over time. For example, being a talented blacksmith would put you pretty much at the top of the working classes, before industrialisation. Now it's something you might do as a hobby in your garage in the hope you can sell handmade wotnots to hipsters. It might not necessarily translate to being a successful investment banker.

In any case, if we are in a position where a lot of people struggle to afford housing, and professions like teachers and nurses can't afford to live (and therefore work) in places like London, maybe we need to look as a society at whether our economic policy is doing the job we need it to.

Arklight

MobileSaver wrote: »

As you work with a homeless charity, would you disagree that many homeless people are in the situation they are in because of bad choices they themselves made in the past?

Maybe I'm heartless but I do not have too much sympathy for people who went down the path of drink, drugs, gambling or criminality while I worked my backside off every day for years and made sacrifices to get to where I am today.

If he / she works with a homeless charity then they'll be well aware that the majority of homeless people have:

• been sexually and or physically abused as children
• a history of being in and out of foster care through no fault of their own
• a disrupted education
• little or no family or other support networks
• been born into poverty and / or parental neglect
• a history of mental illness
• a diagnosis of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (ex soldiers are more likely to end up homeless than any other profession)

It's easy to blame people for their predicament while knowing nothing about them, in fact, psychologists have found it's actually a part of human psychology. But it's not necessarily a form of thinking you can't overcome.