Money Moral Dilemma: Should I tell my employer my annual leave wasn't deducted?

anotheruser

My company treats me like rubbish.

If I knew there would be no come back (even with my limited "are you sure this is right?" question), I wouldn't be bothering to try and change their mind.

I don't have any loyalty to my company as they don't care about me.

John_Gray

Surely MSE could replace many of these so-called Moral Dilemmas with a general question: "Should I commit fraud, or not?", and that would save a significant amount of unnecessary typing.

alfielibby

paddedjohn wrote: »

Don't know what part of the country you live but I regularly talk to people from all over the country and have only heard the term holiday and not leave unless I'm talking to forces or merchant lads

I work in the private sector and have always used the term "leave" (and no, I didn't grow up in a military family). My mum used to work in the Civil Service and always used the term "holiday".
But, does it matter how it's termed, or who one works for, the answer should be the same: tell your employer about the mistake!

alexw1

It depends ...
My current employer - yes, but the relationship I have with them is good & I am fortunate enough to be able to carry all my annual leave over if necessary because we have been busy (2017) & I am also able to e-mail my MD on a Sunday & agree short notice leave & fill a form in when I return if I need to, so absolutely I’d tell them.

... previous employers not so much.
My birthday is the very beginning of January & for my 30th, we planned a group snowboarding holiday for 10 of us for 2 weeks in Canada. We planned the trip 18 months in advance. Everyone was able to get the 2 weeks after x-mas off from work, so all was good.
My employer at the time agreed to the leave, but due to the booking system, I couldn’t submit the advance request as it was too far in the future.
6 months or so later I tried again (as soon as I could, to get it booked on the system, but so that work had it on the system to remember to arrange cover for me). The request just sat there for the next 3 months, un-actioned. My boss eventually responded to my e-mails regarding it, to say that leave could only be booked in the leave year that it was being taken (our holiday year ran jan to dec). He also added that leave had to be booked & approved on the system, otherwise an absence could be viewed as awol & treated as gross misconduct. Long story short is that it was just as well that I kept the e-mail confirmation otherwise the leave wouldn’t have been granted. In addition, I had to work on New Year’s Day which was an additional bank holiday to the ones I was rota’d for, so that I could submit the request before leaving. ... it might sound a bit ‘woe is me’ in this short context, but it isn’t supposed to - they were just an example of an employer who didn’t mirror a relationship with an employee.
Anyway, when I got back they still hadn’t actioned the request, so the leave was never deducted. I booked other leave during the year which was approved, but left the 2 weeks for them to take, which they never did. In the end I took an extra week in the December at the end of the year, but in the January they just rolled the remaining week over ... another year on & they still hadn’t taken it, so I just used the leave!
They had preferential treatment for certain staff members & were reasonably sexist in that treatment as well, so I felt no remorse i’m afraid!

John_L_M

Surely MSE could replace many of these so-called Moral Dilemmas with a general question: "Should I commit fraud, or not?", and that would save a significant amount of unnecessary typing.

You are making the classic mistake of confusing somebody committing a crime and someone failing to act.

If I were to walk into a park where there was just myself and a toddler and I was to pick the child up and throw him or her into a lake or pond and watch it drown I would be guilty of murder.

If I were to walk into a park where a toddler was drowning in a lake or pond and I just stood there and did nothing, no rescue attempt, no shouting for help, no call to the emergency services on my phone, just do absolutely nothing then do you know what crime I would have committed?

That's right - I would not be guilty of any crime!

Fraud is an active crime, something you have done.

wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain.

a person or thing intended to deceive others, typically by unjustifiably claiming or being credited with accomplishments or qualities.

But my response to the original question is, as others have said, honesty is the best policy so unless you know you are leaving soon and just don't care you would be better off pointing out, ahem, their error. I say "their error" because you didn't do anything wrong. You did't commit fraud.

klew356

Hmm difficult one my gut says says nowt, depends on how well you get on with them, it was their mistake in the first place. Id probably say nothing tbh

MOUNTAIN

Do you really need to ask?
They made a mistake but you would be deliberately and knowingly accepting days that do not belong to you.
Do the right thing, you will be better thought of.

TBagpuss

John_L_M wrote: »

You are making the classic mistake of confusing somebody committing a crime and someone failing to act.


Fraud is an active crime, something you have done.


But my response to the original question is, as others have said, honesty is the best policy so unless you know you are leaving soon and just don't care you would be better off pointing out, ahem, their error. I say "their error" because you didn't do anything wrong. You did't commit fraud.

Well I don't think that's always true, there can be acts of omission, and things like failimg to report something could absolutely come under that efinition in the right circumstnaces - it's not really comparable with the drowning child example.

That said, i would agree that fraud (in the technical, criminal sense) is not an issue, and that the poster should absolutely notify their employer of the error.

If they don't, then it is something which an employer could justifiably see as dishonesty and that's potenatially a gross misconduct issue . So I guess the question for the poster is whether they want to risk being sacked for misconduct and having the holiday pay clawed back..

Takeaway_Addict

MarcMCFC1986 wrote: »

Anybody who says they would be honest about this and let the company know is a liar.

Next question...

Actually most would, because most people are decent honest beings and its built into them

Basia022

Does your employer asks every year how big a pay rise would you like? Would you like a bigger holiday entitlement? etc - How often have they said oh no you can't have those dates - no you have got to work over christmas - do it or you are sacked - we are making people redundant. Empolyers are not charities (unless this one is), and neither are you. Best one i know of was a company takeover where they cut holidays to 4 weeks from 6 but gave one person 4 weeks entitlement even though she has used up most of her 6 weeks. She asked them how much holiday she had and they said 4 weeks so she took it. I have worked with many people who couldn't even say how much holiday they have taken and plenty who have come to the end of their holiday year and lost the holiday because they weren't allowed to take it.