Full time self employment incompatible with UC?

Only on my third appointment a the job centre (for reclaiming UC since my first claim ended up being closed straight away) was I told that as a full-time self employed person, I cannot possibly receive UC payments if I'm not gainfully self-employed, minimum monthly is something like £1,150.

Is that correct?
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Comments

  • calcotti
    calcotti Posts: 15,696 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    gilbutre wrote: »
    Only on my third appointment a the job centre (for reclaiming UC since my first claim ended up being closed straight away) was I told that as a full-time self employed person, I cannot possibly receive UC payments if I'm not gainfully self-employed, minimum monthly is something like £1,150.

    Is that correct?

    If you are asking to be treated as self employed and have been self employed for more than 12 months you will have the Minimum Income Floor applied. Normally this will be about £1245 (assuming you are over 25 and expected to work 35 hours/week). This is the amount you will be assumed to be earning even if you earn less. If your maximum UC entitlement is less than £785/month the MIF mans there will be UC entitlement after an earnings deduction based on this amount is made unless you are responsible for children in which case some of your 'earnings' will be disregarding.

    Whether or not you have an entitlement will depend on your circumstances.

    https://www.turn2us.org.uk/Benefit-guides/Universal-Credit-income-and-capital/Self-employed-earnings

    The simple statement as expressed in your question is muddled and wrong. You can certainly be in full time self employment and entitled to UC. Who has told you this?

    Question for others posting on this forum - any idea how carry forward of self employed losses works with MIF?
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Some rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • huckster
    huckster Posts: 5,196 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    In regard to self employed losses while under the MIF, when income and expenses are reported, any loss amount Is noted , even though the MIF applies for an AP. Then if the claimant has a brilliant month earning more than the MIF, then the loss amount is deducted. But not deducted to the extent that the earnings considered is below the MIF. Any loss still left is then a available to be applied later.

    I believe that is how it works.
    The comments I post are personal opinion. Always refer to official information sources before relying on internet forums. If you have a problem with any organisation, enter into their official complaints process at the earliest opportunity, as sometimes complaints have to be started within a certain time frame.
  • calcotti
    calcotti Posts: 15,696 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    huckster wrote: »
    In regard to self employed losses while under the MIF, when income and expenses are reported, any loss amount Is noted , even though the MIF applies for an AP. Then if the claimant has a brilliant month earning more than the MIF, then the loss amount is deducted. But not deducted to the extent that the earnings considered is below the MIF. Any loss still left is then a available to be applied later.

    I believe that is how it works.

    That’s helpful, thanks huckster.
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Some rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • naturaljazz
    naturaljazz Posts: 164 Forumite
    Tenth Anniversary 100 Posts
    Yes under UC rules the minimum income floor is applied. It is very tricky to be on UC and self-employed. The link on Turn To Us explains it, and you can do a calculator on there too. They are very accurate in their information. https://www.turn2us.org.uk/Benefit-guides/Universal-Credit-income-and-capital/Self-employed-earnings
    Remember when you judge someone, it does not define them ... You define yourself :j
  • AG47
    AG47 Posts: 1,618 Forumite
    WillowCat wrote: »
    On Universal credit they are only interested in the earnings, not the hours. If you earned £100 an hour you could lift it by working six hours in a month.

    This level of earnings would also put you in 'light touch' so you wouldn't have to keep attending job centre meetings, unless one of you is in work focused interview or work preparation group.


    Are you sure Willowcat that £600 per month is enough to put you in light touch?

    Is this if you are a couple with kids?
    Nothing has been fixed since 2008, it was just pushed into the future
  • AG47
    AG47 Posts: 1,618 Forumite
    Also the MIF doesn’t apply for the first 12 months

    “Start up period

    If you start a business whilst you are claiming Universal Credit, the minimum income floor will not apply to you for the first 12 months. This 'start up period' gives you a chance to grow your business. In the start up period, your Universal Credit payment is calculated based on your actual earnings even if they are lower than your minimum income floor.

    You get a 12 month start up period for the first 12 months of your Universal Credit claim if you started your business less than one year before you started your claim. You can only have one start up period for each business and you can only have one start up period in every five years.”
    Nothing has been fixed since 2008, it was just pushed into the future
  • huckster
    huckster Posts: 5,196 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    Depends on the claim details

    One of a couple might be in no work related requirements.
    The comments I post are personal opinion. Always refer to official information sources before relying on internet forums. If you have a problem with any organisation, enter into their official complaints process at the earliest opportunity, as sometimes complaints have to be started within a certain time frame.
  • The-Joker
    The-Joker Posts: 718 Forumite
    Take a couple with kids renting privately, they are both working self employed trying to both start a business each. So in their first year.

    They earn about £600mnth between them to start with even though they are doing their utmost to increase this.

    Would either of them have to attend jobcenter for regular meetings? Or would they be on litetouch?
    The thing about chaos is, it's fair.
  • calcotti
    calcotti Posts: 15,696 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    AG47 wrote: »
    Also the MIF doesn’t apply for the first 12 months

    “Start up period

    If you start a business whilst you are claiming Universal Credit, the minimum income floor will not apply to you for the first 12 months. This 'start up period' gives you a chance to grow your business. In the start up period, your Universal Credit payment is calculated based on your actual earnings even if they are lower than your minimum income floor.

    You get a 12 month start up period for the first 12 months of your Universal Credit claim if you started your business less than one year before you started your claim. You can only have one start up period for each business and you can only have one start up period in every five years.”

    But if you have already been self employed for 12 months before claiming UC you do not get benefit from this. I think the rule is to be changed in the future so that there will be a 12 month grace period even if already self employed but it doesn't come in until next year.
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Some rules may be different in other parts of UK.
  • calcotti
    calcotti Posts: 15,696 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    AG47 wrote: »
    Are you sure Willowcat that £600 per month is enough to put you in light touch?

    Is this if you are a couple with kids?

    The default Administrative Earnings Threshold for a couple is £541/month (averaged over 12 months).
    Information I post is for England unless otherwise stated. Some rules may be different in other parts of UK.
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