Is AVRO energy a scam??

Benny28

Edit: I'm just going to write for whoever bumps into this thread that the answer is: no, it's ok, at most they're guilty of pulling us in with super low prices that weren't realistic for us, but that's not a crime.

We got scared because our usage suddenly doubled out of seemingly nowhere (explanation later) and so our DD doubled along, and the estimates for future months spiked. We talked to them and agreed to give weekly readings with the promise of a recalculation. After a month, the recalculation happened, the usage went back down but the estimates for the future remained very high, and since Avro is a fairly new company that we never heard of before, we wanted to validate it through other people's experiences.

In the end, a nice customer service operator, who looked into things properly, found out what the real problem was (our meter is old and the numbers are swapped the wrong way around, so technically our meter readings were wrong since the beginning). She recalculated the whole thing for us and we sorted it out.

The only thing we can feel miffed about, and still do, is that Avro's original estimates were way, way too low for us even though we were honest about our usage history and habits. We expected it to a point, but we're talking double price.

Many thanks to the people who tried to help. To the ones that felt the need to judge us for being scared, I have no words.

p00hsticks

I don't know much about AVRO energy, but given that 99.9% of the items alleged to be 'scams' on these boards aren't, I'd guess the answer is no.

Gerry1

I found Avro be to pretty good. Very low prices, fixed contract and no exit fees. They bring out new tariffs every few weeks and I changed several times to make it even cheaper, and it also extended the 12-month period each time. My only slight grumble is that they're a bit slow to refund credit when you leave, but that seems to be an industry wide problem thanks to dozy Ofgem. I'll happily go back to them if they become the cheapest once again.

Did you always send them meter readings on time? In any case, if it's dual fuel then £540 is about half the average annual bill so it's hardly surprising that the DD has increased to a more realistic level.

Sadly, as with so many posters on this forum you haven't provided any evidence (actual consumption based on accurate meter readings), it's just emotion rather than reason.

Why don't you provide your current readings and your move-in readings, calculate the costs, and tell us show whether your account is in debit or credit? You need hard FACTS to make a case, not just an unsubstantiated belief that "It's far too expensive !". It's hardly fair to suggest they're scammers when you've offered no evidence whatsoever.

In any case, they haven't doubled their prices. At worst, if they've got their sums a bit wrong you'll just build up a higher than average credit balance which you can have refunded, probably just in time for Christmas.

Sorry to give you a harsh reality check, I know you're a newbie, but it's really out of order to go slagging off a cheap energy company simply because you don't understand how fixed direct debits work.

Talldave

Did you use twice as much in May (ie: you have the meter readings that show this)? If so, that's nothing to do with Avro, is it?

Or did they get a meter reading for the first time in months which highlights underestimating in previous months?

Remember, estimated bills are fiction, they mean nothing apart from being a guess of what you might have used. Eventually, a life of guesses comes to an end with an actual reading and a real bill. The magnitude of shock at the real bill is proportional to the length of time the guessing has been going on for and how far out the guesses were.

Benny28

Guys, I said I was worried, not accusatory. It makes me feel better to hear that others have had good experiences, then this might just be an accident.

And like I said I did try to post an image of the usage estimates but the forum won't let me attach it because I'm a new user, it's a restriction to limit the risk of spam. No need to "put me down a peg". Maybe I used too many exclamation marks, but you just made a lot of assumptions on my intentions. Reassurance is all I was hoping for.

Benny28

We gave meter readings every month, everything was stable up until May.
Something weird then must have happened which we're still investigating, we thought maybe we had given the wrong readings as it's not like we had a massive party or anything to warrant double usage, so we thought this would fix itself in time like you said. I'm still hoping that's the case. I just wanted to check if others had had odd experiences because it scared us.

mac.d

Benny28 wrote: »

We checked their estimates on the site and they were ridiculous, apparently in May we consumed more than double our usual and they just calculated that we would keep consuming that much for the rest of the year (even increasing in the later months)! So we contacted them and they just told us to keep an eye on usage and send them meter readings every week. We decided to do it for a month and see how the estimate would change. When June ended we had proof that our usage went back down to our usual.

Benny28 wrote: »

And like I said I did try to post an image of the usage estimates but the forum won't let me

Benny28 wrote: »

We gave meter readings every month, everything was stable up until May.
Something weird then must have happened which we're still investigating, we thought maybe we had given the wrong readings as it's not like we had a massive party or anything to warrant double usage, so we thought this would fix itself in time like you said.

You keep talking about estimates, except when you recorded weekly meter readings for a month in June. Then later say you gave meter readings every month. Which is it?

Do your bills/statements show next to the meter readings that they are estimates, actual, customer or smart meter reads?

Ignore estimates, if you are submitting regular monthly meter readings to Avro, your bills should reflect that and state how much credit or debit you are in. If its showing a debit figure then you owe them money and your monthly direct debit should go up as you aren't paying enough to cover your bills. If its in credit, they shouldn't be making any changes to it.

Gerry1

Benny28 wrote: »

We gave meter readings every month, everything was stable up until May.
Something weird then must have happened which we're still investigating

Yes, it sounds like your unusually low DDs weren't sufficient to cover your measured usage, so Avro increased them to a realistic level, and then increased them a bit more to claw back your arrears. Be grateful that they're being so gentle with you rather than demanding that you repay all your debt immediately !

Once again this illustrates why Variable DD should be the default: far too many people simply don't have a clue how Fixed DD works and then get upset when estimated bills or higher usage mean they actually have to pay for what they've used. You have to pay for petrol and water according to the exact metered amount you've had delivered, so why should energy be the odd one out?

Darksav10r

@p00hsticks:
Well... that nugget of wisdom was helpful!

@The rest of the comments:
Thanks for clearing this up. There was a little bit of confusion with regards to submitted reading and estimates... this was from both of us as until this last year, we've both had very different experiences with energy companies as we lived separately. Seems sometimes two head are NOT better than one!

However, I've just been on the phone with them while all of this has been going on and can confirm that our usage was slightly higher.
The unusually low tariff seems to have been a one of the players in this saga as a renewal price was quoted at £106 p/m (basically twice that of the original).
The other player was our wonky meter and me - the numbers are the wrong way round so, each month I had been submitting the opposite figures! Shame on me I guess!

Anyway, for anyone else is a similar spot:

1. Confirm your readings after your second submission to ensure the meter reads correctly.

2. If you're on a low tariff, expect a debit towards the end of your year

Avro also offer the ability to continue with a renewal and append the debit to your rolling monthly too. This obviously increases your monthly payment but, offsets the debit so you're not hit with a massive one-off payment. If the appended amount is still to big, you are able to pay a percentage of that debit and have the remaining added to your monthly also.

Final note... just be nice, people!
There is no point wasting energy being mean when you gain nothing from it :money:

Gerry1

I'm glad that you managed to get everything sorted out.

As it happens, p00hsticks was absolutely spot on in post 2: No, it wasn't a scam !

As for apologising to Avro, let me put it this way. If someone posted the question "Are Benny 28 and Darksav10r guilty of xxxx ?" where xxxx is something unspeakable, you might be just a wee bit miffed. (Don't worry, I'm not going to !)

You had zero evidence of scamming by Avro, you jumped to conclusions and you got it seriously wrong. That's mightily unfair to Avro because they're completely blameless. Many Forumites, perhaps most, won't even have opened the thread let alone read all the posts, so their impression of Avro may remain tainted forever because of your headline. Remember the infamous libel case 'Why is Lord McAlpine trending?' ? You might wish to rewrite your headline as 'Why has my Direct Debit suddenly increased so much?' That's a much fairer question.

Benny28 wrote: »

Edit: I'm just going to write for whoever bumps into this thread that the answer is: no, it's ok, at most they're guilty of pulling us in with super low prices that weren't realistic for us, but that's not a crime.

Update: I see that you've completely backtracked by totally rewriting your original post !

Benny28 wrote: »

our meter is old and the numbers are swapped the wrong way around, so technically our meter readings were wrong since the beginning

Once again, you're blaming everyone except yourselves. Avro didn't mess up the meter readings, you did. Avro helped you by spotting your mistake.

Benny28 wrote: »

Avro's original estimates were way, way too low for us even though we were honest about our usage history and habits. We expected it to a point, but we're talking double price.

Avro's crystal ball didn't work, you used more energy than before but don't want to pay for it?

Did Avro offer a fixed term deal, only to double their unit prices and double their daily charges before it ended? I very much doubt it. Or were you on a variable tariff which <gasp !> varied ? Well, the clue is in the name ! Either way, you're not on an All You Can Eat Tariff, if you use more than expected then you have to pay for it. That's what meters are for.

Anyway, there's not much point in continuing the debate because it would unproductive and take the thread off topic; we'll just have to agree to disagree. I'll just confirm that I have absolutely no connection with Avro or the energy industry, I'm just a cheapskate looking for fair competition to deliver the best value to consumers.

Darksav10r

You're right, there is no point in arguing about it.
(skip to the bottom if you're interested in the Avro outcome)

My point that p00hsticks said "don't know much about AVRO energy, but given that 99.9% of the items alleged to be 'scams' on these boards aren't, I'd guess the answer is no."

There was no allegation... there was a question.Oh and "I'd guess" doesn't actually answer the question, it's a guess.
As for 'Why is Lord McAlpine trending?', well this was due comments implying he was something he was not by high profile "influencers". This spread like wildfire because people researched it and were lead to false allegations.
Here, Benny28 was not implying anything, just asking if is was a scam and providing some details on what happened. If people then want to research it (or read the thread) they'll see that actually the answer is no.
Now if, Benny28 had said "Avro energy is a scam?" I'd agree there was an implication.

Now bullet points!

+ Avro is a company, if the fallout is positive, such as my replies were, then great publicity. If there was negative fallout, then this would help people to avoid a company that is going to cost them more in the long run.... exactly what this site is for.
Besides, Forumites should read posts, I mean, that's why they are there and if they miss out on a good deal because of their own laziness well, I don't know what to say but, it's not "I'm sorry!"

+ Yes, if you said something negative about me, I'd be miffed because it's a personal attack. However, if it was a question, it gives me (and others) a chance to provide evidence to say otherwise... which is like our question (again, not an accusation)

+ We were on a fixed term deal... we've paid the same amount each month for the last year and then last month, it spiked. Understandably, this is potentially due to the end of our term and us having used more than originally estimated which is fair.

+ Estimations are estimations... sure Avro can't be expected to get it right, after all, this was our first time living together so, estimation were out on both sides.

+ Imagine I tell you how to work a cooker that has three dials and a lever, you go to use the cooker to find it has 2 dials and 5 buttons... are you doing it wrong? (no need to answer)
My point is that if I'm asked to read the top number and then read the bottom number BUT, the number are the wrong way round and I am unaware of this, I'm not blaming Avro but, I'm also not going to take responsibility for it.

You'll not hear more from me after this

Outcome
In any case, AVRO were incredibly helpful in solving the issue.
They've given us a competitive quote on a renewal (variable tariff) and also, allowed us to either pay the debit and go for that renewal at a base price or attach our debit to the renewal at a slightly higher price.

Overall we are happy with them, we just got confused and worried by the sudden spike.
Once I had spoken to someone, they were able to explain in much greater detail the reasoning for the increase and even gave me a full breakdown of how the renewal was calculated. On a side note, automatically produced letters are evil... always call the company who sent them out for clarity.
HMRC are a very good example of how an automated letter can give basically no information and make you think you've done something wrong!

Good evening to you all, may the rest of your week be glorious!