Cladding of a combustible nature

Principeingles · 18 October 2019 at 5:11PM

So an update...

I found out last week that the Managing Agent have infact commissioned a survey on the building in compliance with the MHCLG advice note 14. Apparently this has already happened. The HA have told me that they are unable to issue the certificate because they are waiting for guidance from the RICS on how to do this. I spoke with the Managing Agents today and they said that a number of banks have refused mortgages because of the way they had set out the certificate showing the results of the survey so they are waiting for info from the Royal Institute on how to do this. Can anyone shed any light on this? Or am I just being fobbed off?

Thanks

Aj_newbie · 22 October 2019 at 3:21PM

So, finally, the freeholder provided me with the latest Fire Risk Assessment that was carried out in 30th July this year, by an IFE Registered Fisk Assessor.

What I find strange here is - although this has been done in July, and the AN 14 came earlier this year, the IFE assessor haven't assessed the cladding with respect to fire safety. This is what is written in the report -
"External cladding screening: It is reported that the cladding located on block elevations is subject to a structural and combustibility survey report. This report was unavailable at the time of the visit. It is reported that the front elevation is terracotta tile, with side elevations finished in rendering."

Under the head "Are there any other features, which could lead to the spread of flames to the floor above?" it talks about the building's external cladding is subject to survey.
Also mentioned is - Dwelling balconies have timber floors. The underside of the flooring is not sealed or finished in a fire retardant board or material. It is foreseeable that fire may spread externally via the timber floors on the balconies.

I don't think there's any chance that the lender will be okay with this report in order to proceed ahead with the process.

The freeholder charged £100 + VAT for this report

:mad:

I am thinking of writing to the local MP as well as the MHCLG.
If there's a law (the AN 14), why and how are the freeholder's getting away with it?
Is that law only applicable to building with ACM cladding?

If that is the case, it is easy to believe, that lenders are overreacting to this law, and looking at this law as an opportunity to make more money (many of the existing mortgaged property owners are forced to remain with the same lender at higher rates).

Principeingles · 22 October 2019 at 4:15PM

Dear Aj_newbie,

I wrote to MHCLG at the end of September and got the following reply this week. It seems they are not particularly interested in what is happening at all:

Thank you for your email of 26 September to the Ministry of Housing, Communities
and Local Government (MHCLG), regarding the property you wish to sell. I am
responding as an official in the team responsible for building safety. I apologise for
the delay in responding.

Thank you for drawing this problem to my attention. The Government cannot
comment on individual cases, but I understand this must be frustrating for you.
Government is aware that there is a degree of nervousness around external wall
systems that is having an impact on the mortgage market. While it is for industry to
determine its appetite to risk, it is important that the assessments on risk are made in
the light of all the evidence available, including guidance provided by Government,
and fire safety assessments for particular buildings.  

The Government published Advice Note 14 as a guide to best practice for building
owners. While it is not a statutory instrument and should not be treated as such,
Advice Note 14 helps building owners choose the most appropriate course of action
should there be any safety concerns about their building’s external wall system. The
advice notes the Government has published can be found at:
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/the-building-safety-programme#advice-notes

My only advice at this stage would be to continue to engage with your building owner
and reach out to other lenders to ascertain what evidence would be sufficient for
them.
Yours sincerely,

ryski84 · 31 October 2019 at 1:46AM

We are selling our flat in a block that has 8 storeys. The buyers lender has raised the stock enquiry noting the MHCLG advice note. We are at a standstill.

On our fire risk assessment it states there is no ACM and that our building is of a brick and concrete structure. However, the advice note 14 includes properties over 6 storeys regardless of whether there is cladding or not.

I think in the first instance the onus should be on the Building Owners to attempt to obtain the written statement. Our housing association (L&Q) gave us a stock response that was a poor attempt at a fob-off. However, the issue isn’t going away and I refuse to let them off the hook.

Rather than go through teams of customer services at L&Q, I wrote to the head of fire safety (in a letter sent special delivery) and sent copies to the Chief Executive and the commercial director. I await their response.

I have been in touch with a chap that is from the Fire Engineers Institute. He has said in order to provide the report he needed “A copy of the buildings fire strategy, specification of the cladding system and a site inspection”. The cost is £365.

The fundamental point is this. Developers/Housing Associations are putting profit first and safety second. There is no comprehensible reason as to why they would not try to obtain the statement other than the fear of finding out something nasty. Of course, finding out whether a building is combustible is imperative as then remedial works can be planned/carried out. The advice notice isn’t law, but it is still a significant document issued by an expert panel from government which is causing wide ranging issues for homeowners.

For my situation, I will continue to press L&Q. It is deeply unsatisfactory that they would flout government fire safety guidelines simply because it wasn’t law.

I think the Press will also want to know about this current plight from Homeowners so as to bring the issue to the fore. I think writing to the MPs will be a slow laborious process. Firms will want to avoid the PR embarrassment. If anyone is keen to buddy up and get this to some decent news outlets then let me know.

The key message is, developers and housing associations etc are putting profit before safety. They should be preserving life over profit.

Ry

Principeingles · 2 November 2019 at 12:26PM

My management company has finally done the survey on the cladding of the building but now they are saying they are unable to give me the certificate because they are waiting for guidance from the Royal Institute of Chartered Surveyors on how the information should be presented. The managing agent had a meeting on Thursday with their surveyors and they told me that:

"There is no update I am afraid [about when the certificate will be sent] , there is a stale mate at the moment between MHCLG and RICS as to how the document can be produced with regards to liability. We are pushing extremely hard but ultimately this is above us and with government now."

Is this true? Can anyone tell me if this is the situation nationally, or just an issue affecting my managing agent?

Thanks

terzinho86 · 2 November 2019 at 2:28PM

Hi.

Same situation.

Certificate was issued by a Fire Engineer based on the "declared construction" but banks require invasive checks to verify that: 1) the declared construction is indeed what was actually put in place and that 2) the buildup conforms with the BRE fire safety tests.

It's an absurd situation and the government and industry should step up and intervene. How can one as a owner be buying a flat that he/she believed was fully safe and was presumably certified to be fit and compliant, only to find out a few years down the road that it actually may well not be and requires additional checks......?

terzinho86 · 2 November 2019 at 3:37PM

At least the situation is now receiving some press and government attention (I am not allowed to post links so see articles below):

- Inside Housing: advice-note-14-explained-what-is-it-and-why-is-it-stopping-the-sale-of-so-many-properties-63981

- Guardian: after-grenfell-homebuyers-told-their-flats-are-worthless

- Inside Housing: up-to-600000-people-could-be-living-in-unsellable-flats-due-to-cladding-guidance-labour-finds-63968

- Telegraph: dangerous-cladding-leaves-homeowners-worthless-properties/

Parliament

Asked by Mr Steve Reed

(Croydon North)

Asked on: 21 October 2019

Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government
Housing: Insulation

To ask the Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government, what estimate he has made of the number of homes in England that have been valued at £0 as a result of surveyors being unable to confirm that (a) cladding and (b) insulation in those homes was not flammable.

A
Answered by: Esther McVey

Answered on: 29 October 2019

Holding answer received on 24 October 2019

Ministers are aware of these issues and the department is working at pace to find solutions. Officials are supporting the Royal Institute of Chartered Surveyors (RICS) and wider industry to improve, for example, the process through which building owners share relevant information with lenders to provide reassurance.