Need advice on insurance for damage caused by neighbours fire

lisyloo

I sympathise with your situation.

Sometimes it can really help to get the complaints department involved.
It is certainly a good idea and it’s free and there is a clock ticking so it’s good to start it early. So it’s good if you’ve done that.
If the complaints dept are useless too then you can engage the ombudsman but you need to wait 8 weeks from deadlock, so it’s good to start the process.

It is useful for people to know about this insurer and to urge them to check independent comparisons (defacto, which etc.) as well as reviews.

Do you have seperate legal cover?

I am certainly considering getting a seperate legal policy as I know you can’t usually use the insurance add-on to take your insurer to court.

I would suggest you start keeping details.
Keep names, dates, time of each phone call with the details of what was discussed.
An overhead yes, but it may help if calls are recorded and if they are not it will still add a great deal of credibility to your complaint or legal claim if it gets to that.

Btw - was a broker involved in selling you the policy?

littlerock

I am keeping a diary. I need to check my legal insurance. Policy came with mortgage.

lisyloo

Your mortgage company can insist on buildings insurance (clearly they have an interest) but which company is purely up to you.
If you’ve just kept the same one you were given over 25 years ago then it sounds like you’ve not done a lot of research on ratings, quality, coverage etc.
That’s not an excuse for poor service, but clearly there is a significant difference between companies.

Quentin

lisyloo wrote: »

If the complaints dept are useless too then you can engage the ombudsman but you need to wait 8 weeks from deadlock, so it’s good to start the process.

No

You can escalate to the FOS whenever you get your Insurers response to your complaint (if the response is not to your liking)

The 8 weeks wait just relates to the maximum time allowed for the insurer to respond.

So if the insurer ignores the complaint for 8 weeks then you can get the FOS involved then without waiting any longer for a response.

But definitely no need to wait that time before escalations if you have received a response to the complaint

littlerock

What is really worrying me is that because my damage is serious water damage (also some smoke damage) due to 6 hose pipes pumping for 4 hours, including spraying my house to keep fire next door "surrounded," someone at my insurers assigned claim to their loss adjustors as (minor ) Escape of Water (which usually means burst pipes) for a report back only.

A junior loss adjustor was then assigned to report back only to insurers before any further action could be taken. I was not told this by insurers. I only found out from loss adjustor when he turned up on Thursday 3 days after fire. .

Insurers and their loss adjustors both agree my damage is result of major fire next door. So why did this happen ? Neither said can or will say.

Fire was Monday afternoon but not allowed back into my house to retrieve insurance documents until Tuesday morning. At once phoned insurers who allocated claim to loss adjustors. Later that day I got call from C. a female Loss adjustor who talked me through things like emergency accommodation. She was very helpful..

Shortly afterwards I got call from A. Loss adjustors team manager ( I now know) for minor claims, saying he had had a difference of opinion with his female colleague C. and taken over my claim . He was sending AL. loss adjustor on Thursday. He said nothing about type of claim he was handling for insurers.

On Wednesday I chased A at loss adjustors re expenses for remedial work, drying out fans, accommodation etc. He said he could do nothing until loss adjustor had visited and written his report. He never explained this was because of the brief passed to him by the insurers or I would have challenged it with them sooner. Indication was this was standard procedure.

On Thursday AL junior loss adjustor visited us. He was person who told us it was down as Escape of Water report only and that he had no delegated authority to authorise emergency remedial work and it was in smaller non fire claims with ceiling of £80k.. At time of his visit, house next door was burnt out shell and fire engines were back to put out new fire in roof. AL had no authority to approve any accommodation or expenses just to write a report.

As soon as he left I phoned insurers and loss adjustors direct to ask claim why it was classified as Escape of Water and was assured it was ibeing treated as fire claim. Which it clearly wasn't. So I phoned up insurers and made formal complaint. Got text message late on to phone them Friday morning.

I phoned insurers at 9..00 am on Friday. Got out thru to Home Claims team. Person who left message previous day not available. Call handled by someone else who got my claim up on line and confirmed it had been passed to loss adjustors to investigate as Escape of Water and report back only. He did not explain why. He said fire damage required escalation to another department and budgets set up with delegated authority to authorise remedial work, emergency accommodation etc. This had not happened and he would arrange it straightaway and phone me back. He never called back. .No one did. My loss adjusters answerphone was on all day. Contents loss adjuster turned out not to work Fridays.

In the meantime I had to find an electrician and builder and pay them myself to do
Emergency work as recommended by fire brigade. I also had to find and pay my own emergency accommodation.

I do not understand why my claim was classified as Escape of Water claim and report only with max budget of 80k + accomodation. My policy is unlimitec. And no emergency help offered not even overnight accommodation. I phoned A at loss adjustors head office often, but he was not informative and does not seem to have challenged this misclassification. He did not tell me about it ether. That was AL the loss adjustor who visited on Thursday.

I am now concerned my claim has been shunted into a backwater with a ceiling of 80k. If sounds a lot but an architect friend says the properties (Mine and burnt out semi next door) should have scaffolding over roofs and a "tin hat "on ASAp. No one seems to be addressing this.

I am not trying to make a profit from this. I just want my house back. In my view it has been mishandled to date by insurers. I am starting to wonder if this is deliberate. So I have appointed loss assessor to represent me. He suggested a more experienced loss adjuster should have been assigned at onset within budgets for emergency works. I am starting to have dark thoughts about the insurer. A, team leader at loss adjusters, seems to be jobsworth unwilling to raise misclassification with insurers.

Please note loss adjuster represents insurer. Loss assessor acts for me.

I have written this here to help me keep a record of events. And for anyone who finds themself in a similar position in future.

huckster

You are going through a traumatic event and should be offered better support by your Insurers. The Loss Adjusters for a claim like this will be talking to the Insurers and it will be during their conversations, that the way in which your claim is being treated is decided.

I Suspect that your Insurers were uncertain about the extent of damage and exact situation, which is why a further inspection was conducted. While they are mucking around, it is not helping you.

Be careful about loss assessors, as while they can be really useful, they have been known to maximise the amount they can charge. So make sure you are happy with the charges, which should have been fully explained to you, when you contracted their services.

Suggest you get on the phone to Insurers head office on Monday morning and insist on speaking to a senior claims manager. You should not have had to take actions, that the loss adjusters should have arranged after they first visited.

littlerock

It is very dispiriting dealing with the loss adjusters. I spoke to A. Team leader several times and to C there and left them in no doubt about severity of fire next door. It was on news and across internet. C. at loss adjusters , who spoke to me briefly early on, clearly understood situation and was helpfull. But she was immediately taken off the case by A whose team only handles claims up to 100k ( inc accommodation) .

Ditto AL the loss adjuster they sent who was a bit out of his depth. He told us he had been given NO delegated budget or authority for my claim, just to visit and write a report - a fact which insurers confirmed on Friday. Any approvals to await submission of his report.. He said A, his team leader, was very experienced. He may be but he was sticking clearly to his brief from insurers to investigate and report first before authorising anything , leaving me hanging for at least a week.

Trying to speak to a senior claims manager at Insurer is really tricky. I did manage it once early on and she told me to phone her back with queries. I tried several times and she has always been on the other line and unable to call back.

I have hired a reputable loss assessor, I hope. I really feel I have no other option because I have no experience of how a major claim like this should be handled and the insurers and their loss adjusters are no help and seem to be working together to minimise my claim, all the time they treat it as a burst pipe.. I do not want to make money. I just want my house back.

I do have separate legal insurance with another insurer.

Chickenlips

I empathise with your position, like most people with an insurance claim, you've had an incident through no fault of your own.

With a claim value such as yours, the adjusters will need approval from your insurer to proceed as it is likely considered a large loss. The company will have a delegated authority limit with insurers, so this person must be very inexperienced not to know this. Senior senior managers are likely to be office based staff, your best bet is to ask for a large loss loss adjuster. They will know what steps to take and be able to assist you, as these losses are their speciality.

Insurers will want to know that you've complied with all policy terms, that the risk is as you described when the policy was incepted (and subsequently renewed), and that there are no other issues. Provided there are no issues that are likely to come up (such as under- insurance or non-disclosure), this shouldn't take long.

In the interim, you may wish to appoint your own contractors or ask your adjusters to do so on a without prejudice basis. This means that if the claim was declined for any reason, you would pay their costs. Provided the costs are reasonable and you take plenty of photos, there is no reason you cannot mitigate further damages (in fact, to mitigate further damages is likely a condition of your policy). When reviewing costs, don't accept anything and assume you will be covered. I tell people to treat the costs as though they'd be paying, which tends to help them on the right path. If insurancedidnt exist, you wouldn't be waiting for someone to do everything on your behalf, youd get to work minimising the damage.... consider this approach, as if the claim got declined for any reason, you would be paying for it all and kicking yourself for not working to minimize the damage now. Asking them "is there anything I could be doing whilst waiting for you to come back to me?" Is always a good idea, as you'll get advise to move things along and know what you can do to take control of the situation and progress your home repairs.

I hope that your assessor is able to help. In my experience, they can delay matters further as there is now a third layer to the claim. Their money is made on the building works, meaning the costs they submit are often higher than reasonable rates, causing further delays as the adjuster and insurer try to negotiate them down to reasonable amounts (i.e. what you'd expect a local contractor to charge). In the meantime, you're left waiting for works to begin whilst your assessor is trying to make as much as they can. That being said, I have worked alongside decent assessors that submit reasonable quote or know that their costs will need to come down. As an adjuster, I tend to be open and honest with the assessor about what my thresholds are on costs and that I want the claim to move as quickly as possible. Under the policy (in most cases) the insurer had the right to use their own contractors should they wish, I like to avoid using this term if I can, but if a claim is being delayed due to greed, I do enforce it as my priority is getting works moving quickly. Decent assessors tend to get on board and reach a reasonable compromise within days. Whilst not a scientific approach, I find the assessors that use scare tactics about adjusters on their website and in the first meeting... tend to be the ones to avoid!

Make sure your assessor is open about everything they submit on your claim, as you are the one who has to deal with the premiums going forward. You also want to make sure that where they are charging for works that they think are required, you receive the benefit of the works quoted!

Your property will likely need a tin hat, but if I'm totally honest... with the amount of water that has gone through it, a little rain is hardly going to make matters worse.

It sounds as though the adjusters didn't know it would be a large loss and sent a junior adjuster. This happens. A person on the phone can only take a stab at what the claim will total. I do understand why you feel it has been mishandled, but you may want to adjust your expectations on how quickly the first few days will progress. They won't be deliberately delaying matters, they wi be carrying out their due diligence and making enquiries regarding how to proceed in the background. These types of claims can take months to resolve, you may want to adjust your approach slightly as you'll be working with these people for the next few months. It may not seem like it right now, but you have the same goal. Finally, when it comes to working late on a friday night or Saturday morning ect... it is the nice, polite, and understanding policyholders that I do the extra hours for. Most people do the bear minimum needed to tick boxes to get the demanding complainers of their back. If someone is adversarial and has unrealistic expectations, it is human nature to not want to bend over backwards to help them.

littlerock

Thanks for this. I have agreed with the assessor that I can use my own preferred tradesmen for some of the works, (I have this in writing) and as they are ones I have used before and know to be reliable, I am hoping that everyone will benefit - their estimates will be realistic and I know the quality of their work.

I am concerned about the tin hat as my party wall at roof level is now exposed to the elements and has a couple of holes in it, which I have had patched up. However there is no roof on their house yet, and the interior is pretty well gone, so my house is more exposed than it might otherwise be.

I realise that there might be delays using a loss assessor, but given my claim has already been mishandled to some extent - passed by insurers to loss adjustors as escape of water with no delegated budget for emergency work and with the loss adjusters team leader basically just washing his hands of it until their report is in, leaving me to sort things out myself the first week, including finding my own temporary accommodation, I do not have a lot of confidence in their approach.

Also there are things like specialist plastering where I do not have contacts - it is a Victorian house - and I am hoping they will be better placed to recruit them than I might.

Jlo31

A very interesting thread which I'm following. I do wish you well with your claim and by the sounds of how your insurer has treated you I think you are correct going down the loss assessor route.

Good luck with it all.

James