Missing deeds

michael8626

Hi,

I have a property that was a first registration with Land Registry in 2000. Land Registry did not take a copy of the deeds, there is nothing to view online and they said today they were returned to the solicitor who did the conveyance.

I now have a possible boundary issue and today asked my current lender for a copy of my original paper deeds. They didn’t have them and I have tracked them down to April 2006 when a solicitor ‘electronically discharged’ on the instruction of Santander.

The solicitor firm today confirmed they don’t hold an electronic copy of my deeds and they were allegedly posted back to me in April 2006.

I have categorically never seen or ever had my deeds but I need them now. I had borrowing with Santander from 2005 to 2018.

I know Land Registry title plans and title registers are the norm now but has anyone ever received their deeds back whilst they still have borrowing in place?

AdrianC

Once the property's registered, the deeds hold no proof-of-ownership value, so there's no need for them to be held by the lender's solicitor. So, no, no great surprise that they would have been sent to you way back then. And there's absolutely no way you're going to be able to disprove the posted-back story, 13 and a bit years on.

Apart from mere historical interest, their only value is in filling in any gaps in the LR record - as here...

So, unfortunately, I think you're going to have to regard them as lost, and look for another way of resolving the issue. I'm a bit intrigued by how a boundary dispute can pop up after nearly two decades of ownership. I presume it's a relatively fine-detail thing that the LR map doesn't answer. Or is it a clash between two incompatible map entries?

michael8626

Thanks Adrian, I’m not disputing anything, my neighbour is. Our title plans show the same boundary, his property was first registration in 2005, again no deeds on land Registry.

I have a building plot now and want to put up a fence on the boundary. My neighbour is now saying he has an old set of deeds that show a different boundary?

michael8626

Adrian, do you believe there are no electronic copies of my deeds anywhere?
Why do Land Registry scan some and not others?

Slinky

michael8626 wrote: »

Thanks Adrian, I’m not disputing anything, my neighbour is. Our title plans show the same boundary, his property was first registration in 2005, again no deeds on land Registry.

I have a building plot now and want to put up a fence on the boundary. My neighbour is now saying he has an old set of deeds that show a different boundary?

Ask him to prove it by showing you his deeds

AdrianC

Old deeds may well show a boundary that's changed since.

The current boundary is that registered with the LR. Old deeds may clarify that, but they won't change it.

Tiglet2

If both properties are now registered at Land Registry, surely the Land Registry have produced a Title Plan which you can download, both of your and your neighbours plots. This is the Plan which will be correct. Old deeds may not be accurate now as it will show the land as it was at that time.

michael8626

Thanks everyone.

Adrian, the Land Registry told me yesterday they ‘mapped his land from an ordnance survey map’ in 2005. I think it was a first registration via inheritance. They must have matched boundaries with my existing title plan? They told me they never saw deeds for his property and thus have no file copy of them.

If a set of deeds have now been found, can boundaries be changed after this amount of time?

michael8626

AdrianC wrote: »

Old deeds may well show a boundary that's changed since.

The current boundary is that registered with the LR. Old deeds may clarify that, but they won't change it.

Also Adrian, his property has been in his family for a considerable length of time, in this instance what could cause a boundary to change?

AdrianC

So his place was a provisional registration, due to a lack of deeds, which he's now "found"...?

michael8626

AdrianC wrote: »

So his place was a provisional registration, due to a lack of deeds, which he's now "found"...?

As far as I am aware, it was a first registration in 2005, inherited the property.

Would/should the conveyancing solicitor at the time have sent in the deeds? The Land Registry have nothing on file to view, they said on the phone yesterday ‘as it was transfer of title we probably just did it off an ordnance survey map’ exact phrase used.

Now if deeds have appeared, where do I stand please?