SMart Parking Ltd. POPLA appeal lost, now debtors

JoJoGrays

Apologies, may I just check: I have replied by letter to CST. However, with their letter is a Reply Form which states "You have 30 days from the date at the top of the enclosed letter to fill in and return this form. If you don't it could result in court proceedings". So for compliance should I also include this form and tick Box C 'I don't know whether I owe the debt' or other?
Ps the letter is dated 17/12/19, received on 24/12/19

waamo

JoJoGrays wrote: »

Apologies, may I just check: I have replied by letter to CST. However, with their letter is a Reply Form which states "You have 30 days from the date at the top of the enclosed letter to fill in and return this form. If you don't it could result in court proceedings". So for compliance should I also include this form and tick Box C 'I don't know whether I owe the debt' or other?

Please re-read post 18

JoJoGrays

Thanks, post 18 is the advice I am following I just wanted to be certain that I did not also need to return the reply form as well as sending a letter, I don't want to fail on a technicality, apologies.

waamo

JoJoGrays wrote: »

Thanks, post 18 is the advice I am following I just wanted to be certain that I did not also need to return the reply form as well as sending a letter, I don't want to fail on a technicality, apologies.

No need to apologise. Redx is spot on (as usual) with his advice. There is no obligation to use their forms at all. The outcome will be the same no matter what so why help them?

Coupon-mad

No-one here ever uses the stupid forms.

JoJoGrays

Dear Experts, if I may trouble you again?
So, I have now received the SAR from the DPO but there's nothing there that's surprising to me.
They have confirmed that they received a payment for my own car and confirmed that there was no record of a car with that VRN entering the car park on that date but pointed out that's not the dispute and reiterated the fact that by not entering the full and correct VRN I have breached the terms and conditions of the car park, stating there was never a denial of this payment being present, but it does not affect the validity of the PCN, and it will remain outstanding in line with this.
Any suggestions on how I can get out of this? It's quite right what they're saying but it just seems so unfair - they have a payment and 4 mins later have my sons car driving out but they won't put 2&2 together.
I haven't heard any more from the Solicitor since asking for them to 'defer pending debt management advice' but I guess they'll be back soon.
Thanks, Jo.

Half_way

Smarts own trade association, the British Parking Association limited recently updated its own code of practice with details on miss-keys /wrong registrations and so on, so this may be worth looking at.


Also on conjunction with the above - who's car park was this???

JoJoGrays

Thanks - it is a Smart Parking car park

Coupon-mad

Can I clear this up, in these recent SAR comms you HAVEN'T blabbed about being the driver, have you? I hope not, given Smart can't hold you liable as keeper!

Am I right that you have not had a claim yet?

This thread tells you your line of attack, albeit this person left it till a court claim has already been issued (not a good plan):

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6096161/county-court-claim-parkingeye-defence-wrong-reg

My advice there applies. Please read the new CoP and take on board that IMHO, it doesn't matter too much, that these rules only changed recently. Smart are an AOS member and this has not proceeded to court yet.

In your case, draft another urgent reply that goes to Smart and to the Solicitors, pointing out to both that:

(a) in the per-action phase, the courts expectation of the parties is that they work to resolve the dispute out of court fairly and in accordance with the applicable Code of Practice and other relevant restraints such as their landowner authority, and legislation such as the Consumer Rights Act 2015.

(b) It has come to your notice about the new BPA CoP (blah blah, you can write that bit given I've already typed it out clearly in the other thread!)

(c) Ask why Smart have paid no regard to the 2020 CoP, given that this has not gone to court yet, and no POPLA appeal was made so their only cost are limited to 'no more than £20' as set out by their Trade Body, and that this change to the rules is not news to Smart Parking which will have known about it for months from the BPA meetings they attend.

(d) Ask if Smart are relying upon the POFA 2012 and how they contend they will get around the fact that their PCNs do not have any of the statutory wording?

DO NOT OFFER MONEY IN THIS COMMUNICATION.

However, then follow that email to both, about 10 mins later or more, with a separate, fresh email (not in the same thread) with a heading 'WITHOUT PREJUDICE, SAVE AS TO COSTS - re PCN xxxxxxxx'

And offer them £15 in accordance with the BPA CoP, which is offered in 'full and final settlement' in the interests of good faith bearing in mind there have been no POPLA costs in this case, and in view of the overriding objective and the Consumer Rights Act. There will be no admission of liability, any debt is denied and the river will not be named and this is never a failure on the part of a keeper, who has no such legal obligation and no presumption exists.

Given the fact that Smart Parking do not use the POFA 2012 so have no cause of action against a registered keeper, this offer is of value to them. This is because they cannot win a subsequent court claim against the registered keeper, would not be acting in 'good faith' if they now issue a claim and by accepting £15 now it will be evidence that they are paying due regard to the new CoP. With a nod to the fact that private parking will soon be regulated more tightly by a proper independent appeal service and a Code that is overseen by the Secretary of State, AOS members such as Smart Parking need to start getting their house in better order than the industry has been to date.

JoJoGrays wrote: »

Thanks - it is a Smart Parking car park

Half_Way means is it a retail park and have you complained to the Store Manager? You need to do that this week, URGENTLY, as a Store manager who wants to cancel a PCN can achieve just that, or will lend weight to the above two emails.

Remember not to say who was driving. Obviously, to get round that (yawn) you just say:

''we are horrified...our family were regular customers...we did this/that''.

And it will be useful to have an email from the Store saying they want it cancelled, in case the above doesn't work and the case goes ahead. Your defence as KEEPER will be strong.

JoJoGrays

Oh dear, you will see in my first post that the very first thing I did when I received the PCN addressed to my son was to appeal telling them it was me driving it and pointed out categorically that I had paid, sending them proof of payment, only to realise I'd entered the incorrect VRN. Does that then mean that I cannot follow the instructions in the rest of your post? No claim yet, just a Solicitor letter. I'm so sorry I didn't come to this forum until I was refused the appeal.