Shared electric meter problems with landlord

Gerry1

Apologies if I have misunderstood your question, but it would certainly not be wise to submit your landlord's bank account details into the direct debit info on an energy account registered in your name, if that's what you were considering.

That could be viewed as fraudulent, even though it seems that you are paying for energy you are not consuming. You might also end up with a damaged credit rating which could make life very difficult for quite some time.

Might be best to ask the Citizen's Advice Bureau.

Although you're the victim, two wrongs don't make a right, and there could be serious repercussions if you attempt to take matters into your own hands.:eek:

Luna_Unicorn

What he is doing is fraudulent though. He's just messing me around now and definitely avoiding me.

Im not letting this go at all.
I'm 25 and disabled I've just had enough don't wanna deal with the guy anymore

MeterMan

Hi, just looked the image, yeah the second meter is running from your supply as you mention and there is no way to turn it off.

I would call the non-emergency number and report him for fraud.

Failing that I would leave as soon as possible.

[Deleted User]

MeterMan wrote: »

Hi, just looked the image, yeah the second meter is running from your supply as you mention and there is no way to turn it off.

I would call the non-emergency number and report him for fraud.

Failing that I would leave as soon as possible.

Best of luck with that line . It will go absolutely nowhere. The Police are not interested in the slightest in electricity abstraction. It is between the supplier and the occupier, and they would not get engaged in third party disputes...OP, either accept this swindle, or move.
Very rare for suppliers to waste money dragging people to Magistrates courts. They are happy to pass losses onto the honest to pay.
I have had 20 years of reporting meter bypass,tampering or fraudulent abstraction and have had conversations with a few policemen over the years, along with advice from senior RPU BG officers
. The police would be interested if either the supplier filed a complaint or there was a cannabis farm to sort, and most of them nowadays do not even get prosecuted but receive cautions for small scale cannabis farming in which the electric meter is always bypassed..

Gerry1

I repeat, don't get yourself into trouble by doing something illegal. The fact that he may be doing something illegal doesn't mean that you can expect to do something illegal and get away with it.

It would be far better to seek advice and perhaps make a claim against him for the amount of energy you think you've been overcharged. You may well find that just the threat of the small claims court will make him pay up, especially if he's not respecting his obligations as a landlord or is cheating HMRC.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-courts/legal-system/taking-legal-action/small-claims/deciding-whether-to-make-a-small-claim/

• Why does the black meter no longer record usage? Has it been illegally bypassed?

Before moving out, you may wish to obtain some video evidence that your meter is recording the energy used by someone else. Shortly after it gets dark and when the other flat has the lights on, put your In Home Display next to your consumer unit and make a video of you switching off absolutely everything that's yours but the IHD showing energy still being used. Ideally, borrow or buy a simple energy monitor, clip it around one of the main wires after the black meter and show it recording the same amount of energy disappearing upstairs.

Please contact Citizen's Advice PDQ and see what they suggest. The small claims route looks promising, and if he doesn't turn up then you'll probably win it by default.

AndyCF

I'm half surprised no one actually suggested 'forgetting to pay any rent for a while (having ensured you had somewhere to go!) and dragging it out as long as possible...

I'm not going to suggest that as "two wrongs do not make a right" , the CAB route seems quite a reasonable suggestion if you can get yourself to one, we don't have one locally here anymore.

Random tip: If you don't have a CAB locally ask at your doctors surgery (yes really) as occasionally they have some kind of 'half day once a month' CAB appointments here at least, it would be worth asking if anything similar is happening for you, I'm not sure how widespread that is or if its simply here only, but no harm to ask.

Luna_Unicorn

The sub meter no longer records usage since a smart meter got put in.

I'm assuming only the supplier will have readings now for both? I really don't know.

I'm not doing anything illegal, it's the last thing I want to do and I'm not going to give him any ammo to throw back.

I've been a renter for over 7 years now and never dealt with someone like this and I've dealt with some right so and sos. This one just takes the biscuit.

Have been onto action fraud and made a report there.

I agree with you all on the police thing, they really won't intervene in this situation but I'm definitely not letting it drop either.

Supplier will be having LLs name and address when I leave on the 31st as it will be empty. He's already added as a third party on the account so he can make payments, don't know why he can't add himself as an account holder cos its going to be his account.

(inserts alllllll the swear words of frustration)

Thanks all, I really appreciate this

Gerry1

AndyCF wrote: »

I'm half surprised no one actually suggested 'forgetting to pay any rent for a while (having ensured you had somewhere to go!) and dragging it out as long as possible...

That's a good idea, and legal-ish !

I'd suggest writing a cheque for the amount due less the estimated energy used by upstairs. As the exam question would say, summarise it neatly in writing and show your working.

As a rough estimate, let's assume that the upstairs electricity usage is 80% of yours if there's one of him and two of you, so take the total costs of all your electricity bills since you've been there and multiply it by 0.444. Make a further tweak if he's at home all day and you're out, or vice versa, just keep everything squeaky clean. Deduct the estimated amount from your rent and offer to pay the rest if he can show that you've only been billed for the electricity you have actually used. Offer to go to an Alternative Dispute Resolution service if you can't agree. If he doesn't like it, tell him to take you to the small claims court... where you'll have your video evidence ready to show.

Did you have to pay a deposit when you moved in? You might not get it all back if you make a deduction from the rent, but the CAB has some useful information:-

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/housing/renting-privately/during-your-tenancy/check-your-landlord-has-protected-your-deposit/

They also have info about general complaints about landlords:-

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/housing/renting-privately/during-your-tenancy/complaining-about-your-landlord/

Why not call the CAB at 0808 156 6030 ? Whatever you do, seek good advice first.

Luna_Unicorn

Sorry where did you get the 0.444% from?
My payments are uploaded in the Google drive marked in green. The unmarked ones are the payments for upstairs.

I did pay a bond yes £400. It's not been put in any protection scheme as far as i can see. I've also not asked him if he has protected it (although it should be up to him).

I'm struggling to get down to cab at the moment but it is on my list to go there. I'm just trying to do as much as I can and getting the relevant info available to present to the LL when he can be bothered to talk about electric

Gerry1

Suppose the two of you downstairs genuinely use £600 of electricity per year. Obviously I don't know your circumstances, but you'll probably use a bit more than he does on his own - more cups of tea, more showers, lights on in more than one room at a time, perhaps one person still at home while the other pops out etc, etc. So for simplicity I'm assuming he uses 80% of what you use, i.e. £480. This sort of assumption shows that you're being fair and gives you the moral high ground, it shows that you're not trying to screw for everything you can get, just a realistic refund for the amount you've been overcharged. If you asked for a 50% refund it might get challenged as being greedy and then get bogged down. Best to keep it simple.

Your smart meter will see the total usage as £1080 and that's the amount that ends up on your bills. You seek a refund of his usage (480/1080ths) which is 44.4% of the total bill, so you ask for 0.444 x £1080 = £480. Obviously you can tweak my example so that it reflects your situation.

Above all, you want something simple to understand so that the small claims court can glance at it and say "That looks entirely reasonable to us. Well, Mr Landlord, why on earth shouldn't you refund the £480 that Luna_Unicorn has been overcharged for electricity used upstairs?"

But if the landlord has any sense he'll realise he's on a very sticky wicket and settle up with you in full before it ever gets near the small claims court. Do tell us how you get on !