Unusual Party Wall Situation!

gregch · 9 July 2019 at 7:02PM

Thanks in advance to anyone taking the time to read and respond to this long and complicated question!!

We and our neighbour both have detached bungalows, but the garages were semi-detached. The history is that there was originally a semi-detached bungalow on the plot(s) and over the years each owner has knocked down their half, built a new detached bungalow further back on the plot, and put up a garage where their half of the original bungalow used to be. The garages are sideways-on, so they're joined back-to-back.

Our predecessor was first to knock down his half of the old bungalow, in the 1970s, leaving the old party wall (which obviously still at that time formed the side of the remaining - and occupied - half of the old bungalow) and he built a detached garage about a foot inside our plot. At the council's suggestion, we gather, he then extended the side walls of his garage to wrap around the old party wall to neaten it up and provide weatherproofing. I suspect he assumed that the neighbour would ultimately pull down his side, party wall and all, leaving the self contained garage and the plots fully detached.

However, when the neighbour took down the remaining half of the original bungalow, in the 1990s, they left just the old party wall standing, and built their new garage onto it - no idea why, maybe to save a few quid on bricks or gain a few inches of space?

Anyway, both those neighbours are no longer around. The garage our side had its piers cut off at some point and consequently began to collapse, was condemned, and has now been demolished as a matter of safety. So now the garage has gone, and the old party wall is revealed in all its glory once again.

So, the party wall is now really just the back wall of the neighbour's garage, it's ugly, and the builder (who both ourselves and the neighbour know and trust) who's taken the garage down says the party wall is in poor shape and needs to come down too.

The problem is that the back of the neighbour's garage would then just be fresh air, so some sort of new wall will need to be built. I think the neighbour is expecting us to pay for everything, because they had no issue before we had to take our garage down. A new wall would be 100% the neighbour's benefit (and if it's a single skin wall it'll be entirely on the neighbour's plot).
So we derive 0% benefit from it.

Before we have the conversation with neighbour, I wanted to sense check with the good people of MSE, so what do you think?

Should we pay 100% of the cost of building the new wall, because the issue wouldn't have arisen without our garage having to come down?

Or should the neighbour pay 100%, because it's solely them that will derive any benefit from it? Or do we split the cost?

The Party Wall Act says we have to pay if the work is solely for our benefit, but doesn't exactly say whether the neighbour has to pay if it's not! In an ideal world, I'd like to ask the neighbour pay half, but interested to see what people think.

silvercar · 9 July 2019 at 7:21PM

I don't see how you can demolish a party wall without the neighbours agreement and without involving a party wall arbitrator (or whatever they are called).

Your issue is the ugliness of the wall, plant some trees in front of it or put up a fence.

chunkytfg · 9 July 2019 at 8:15PM

You haven't said if you're planning on rebuilding the garage thats been taken down?

If so are you planning on using the old PW for any of it? If not then just leave it and when it falls down wrecking his garage it'll be his problem as you're not using the PW for anything.

gregch · 9 July 2019 at 8:52PM

Thanks for the replies so far. No, we're not planning on rebuilding the garage, or anything else, on that part of the plot. Partly because we can barely find the money to pay for the demolition and whatever this new wall will cost, but also because if we did put up another garage at any point, we'd put it on the opposite side of the plot.

Unfortunately we can't leave as is, because it's in very poor shape, could be a danger to us and visitors as it deteriorates, isn't weatherproof, and the current neighbour is mithering about it being exposed.

What's clouding my usual calm objectivity is that there was no reason for the neighbour (at the time) to retain the old party wall once he demolished the remaining part of the property (our guy had built his garage detached, assuming the party wall would come down with the rest of the old house), other than to stick his new garage onto it so he could save a few quid. And now his tightness then is our problem - and cost - to sort out.

But since neither of them are still with us, I guess it sounds like we just have to suck it up, pay for someone else's wall that has no benefit to us, and try and borrow the money to pay for it!

Doozergirl · 9 July 2019 at 9:36PM

Why would you pay for it?

I need to read this at least twice again.

gregch · 9 July 2019 at 11:04PM

Well, exactly. (and sorry for the length of the rambling story)

Doozergirl · 9 July 2019 at 11:22PM

I tried again. My head hurts!

In brief, your side removed the structure attached to the party wall and the neighbour was fine with that.

What I then can't fathom is what you mean by wrapping walls around the party wall? What does that mean? Were you actually propping it up? Was this new structure attached to the party wall?

The neighbour then demolished the structure attached to their side of the party wall and built something else onto it.

You then demolished these 'wrap around walls' which somehow protected the original wall? You've saying that they were actually semi-detached, so it sounds like your side was propping it up after your predecessor undermined it the first time.

If you don't benefit from it, I can understand the frustration and some people might be inclined to just see what the neighbour does, but it actually sounds like you have undermined the structure by removing something attached to it, and should have had a PWA for the demolition.

In summary, it's a mess and I don't see who would win when it all just sounds like a pigs ear and nothing was built correctly at all.

Hopefully one of the couple of party wall surveyors here will show up, as you've lost me.

Doozergirl · 9 July 2019 at 11:30PM

This should be on the 'In My Home' board, but you've already had a reply from a board guide who doesn't think it should.

gregch · 10 July 2019 at 8:12AM

I can understand why your head hurts! If fact the garage on our side wasn't "propping up" the old party wall at all - it was built as an entirely separate structure. The "wrapping around" is just that extra bits of wall either side were built to stop "our" side of the old party wall (at that time the end wall of the remaining half of the old bungalow)being exposed to the elements.

The assumption being that when the remaining half of the building came down, the party wall that formed part of it would go too, but instead they left just the party wall and used it as the back wall of their new garage. They were I guess entitled to do that but it seems an unnecessary bodge that we're now having to deal with.

The garage our side had to come down, together with the bits of it that had protected/concealed/weatherproofed the party wall (but had no structural relationship to it).

So now there's just the old party wall facing us (and on our plot) serving no purpose other than forming the back wall of their garage. It's in poor shape, includes old brick flues and chimneys, and has big gaps in it which the neighbour has covered from his side with plywood (!!!).

So it has to go. Obviously it's fair that we pay for demolition of our garage and the bits that enclosed the wall. But it doesn't seem right that we should also pay for 100% of taking down the old party wall and building it's (non-party, on their plot, with no benefit to us) replacement?? Or does it??