Notice to Keeper

dianescuba

Hi, today I received a PCN for overstaying on a shopping centre car park - I hadn't noticed the signs about the limit on free parking so guilty as charged I guess. ANPR was used. However, nowhere on the PCN are the words "Notice to Keeper" and nowhere does it refer to me as being the keeper of the vehicle. Could I appeal on this technicality? All the sites I've looked at looking for a loophole refers to the "Notice to Keeper" so surely it should be referred to as this on the document if it is deemed to be official. Am I just clutching at straws..??

adam5816

Upload a redacted (ensuring all personal details, name, address, reference number and number plate removed) copy of the letter you have received here http://tinypic.com/ so that we can see if they have followed PoFA 2012 Schedule 4. If they have not, then do not waste your time writing up an appeal to the PPC as it will get rejected anyway, they are after money. Save this as one of your points in POPLA, not following PoFA is an easy throw out at POPLA stages as you can raise this as a point.

Go onto the newbies thread here https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4816822/newbies-private-parking-ticket-old-or-new-read-these-faqs-first-thankyou and copy the blue text appeal making sure to appeal as KEEPER in order to get your POPLA code so that you can appeal on there. that is considering this is a BPA approved PPC.

Redx

You are clutching at straws, it's an unregulated industry

parking charge notice is what it is called, or PCN for short

If it's affixed to a windscreen it's a notice to a driver, or NTD

If it's sent in the post to a keeper who's details were obtained from the DVLA, then it's a Postal notice to a keeper, or NTK for short, the first time that a keeper is made aware

Which PPC is it ?

How long was the driver overstay ?

dianescuba

The overstay was 27 minutes and the PCN came through the post to me after Automatic Number Plate Recognition. As I hadn't seen the signs can I not argue that I had not knowingly entered into a contract and therefore cannot be in breach of contract. I know they say that ignorance is no excuse and I do need to revisit the site to see how prominent the signs are, although I am usually very aware of parking regulations and suspect that they are not prominent at all.

Redx

You can argue whatever you like but whether or not a judge will agree with you remains to be seen

Signage is always what matters because that is what forms the contract, or not

The alleged overstay is beyond the usual parameters

Which PPC issued the PCN ?

Quentin

Throughout here you are advised never to reveal who was driving

You need to edit your posts to remove details of who was driving

The ppcs monitor this forum and can use posts in your thread against you in Court

MistyZ

If appealing, submit the first appeal template - it's in blue text in the Newbies' thread - to the parking company. Don't amend it in any way. Appeal as keeper, do not identify driver.

There will only be an opportunity to appeal to POPLA if the PPC is a BPA member. Which PPC was it?

If you intend to fight on, visit the car park and take photos of signage and any other relevant features or lack of them. If signage is obviously awful and POPLA is an option, that could be a major point to use.

Have you complained to the landowner? Was money spent on the day? Are occupants of the car 'loyal customers' of the shops there? If someone was busy shopping then there's not really a problem with an overstay of 27 minutes from the retailer's point of view! Even browsing can count for a lot, especially if a large purchase is being considered. All of this and more can go in a landowner complaint. To the top mind, not 'customer services' or shop floor staff, but manager at the very least & preferably CEO. Insist on cancellation of the PCN.

The_Deep

If the shopping Centre has a Facebook page make a complaint there., and to every retail outlet on site. There are many occasions when the arbitrary time limit set by a scammer is insufficient, e.g., having a meal, getting ones hair done, buying a three piece suite, choosing curtains, etc., etc., etc.

Also, complaint to the managing agent at the site and your MP as nine times out of ten these tickets are scams.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies. .