Removing disputed from Credit Report / adding statemnet

markocosic

Hi MSE,


Many moons ago (2017) ...

Virgin Media claimed I owe them £16 for services provided.

I explained that I disputed owing Virgin Media £16 for services provided on the grounds that said services had not been provided.

They said (paraphrasing) they couldn't give two hoots and would send in the debt collectors and put an entry on my credit file noting that I owed them money.

I explained that trying to collect a disputed debt was an offence. They said (paraphrasing) they couldn't give two hoots.

Virgin Media promptly did exactly what they said they would.

The 3rd party debt collectors were consummate professionals, acknowledged that the debt was disputed, and agreed that further attempts to collect this were against the law.

The credit reference agency were the opposite, first refusing to place a dispute statement on file on the grounds that it was "defamatory, frivolous, scandalous, or otherwise unsuitable for publication" then completely drafting a notice of correction designed to favour Virgin Media and asking me to approve this...

Their proposed version even began with:

"I would like to explain the circumstances leading towards the default on this account.."

i.e. Placing a statement that starts wirth "I agree that this account is in default" on the account

Whereas mine disputed the alleged debt in its entirety.


Question:

Is there any legal mechanism by which I can force Virgin Media to prove this alleged debt (in court) or otherwise remove this defamatory entry from my credit file?

The credit reference agency appear to be acting in cahoots with their client (Virgin Media) to try make me agree to statements that undermine my case rather than placing the dispute statements on file.


One could pay the £16 but I'm unhelpfully stubborn and have an objection to encouraging those committing fraud and engaging in blackmail.

Fortunately at mortgage renewal time the (alleged) debt was so trivial and the (alleged) lender so notorious for bad behaviour that the underwriters just laughed. I've just been turned down for a cashback credit card though (computer says no and no human underwriters involved) which is frustrating.

So I'd like to return Virgin Media and/or Experian the favour. In many ways its Experian's behaviour (trying to undermine the consumer's position) which is most out of order here.

[Deleted User]

You can go to the ICO if you believe the data to be wrong.

If that fails, you will need to take Virgin to court.

The CRA isn't in 'cahoots' with anyone. They store the data provided by creditor unless it is proven to be inaccurate.

sourcrates

Hi,


First off what they have done is not against the law, nor was it an offence, (the penalty of commiting an offence was revoked some years ago) basically the rules around defaults and disputed debts are just guidelines, so can be interpreted by lenders in a number of ways, that been said, they do have a bad reputation for such actions.

What you should have done was follow their complaints procedure, if no agreeable solution could be found, the case would have been settled by Independent adjudication.


Virgin media complains procedure :

https://www.virginmedia.com/help/virgin-media-complaint


The credit reference agencies can only display information provided to them by the creditor, there is very little scope for making complaints direct to them, thats why any disputes about information shown has to be addressed by the original creditor that logged the information in the first place.


As ZX81 points out above, the ICO may be able to help, depends how long ago the dispute was.

[Deleted User]

If you were getting bad service from them, I'm assuming broadband not up to spec, then you cannot just stop paying them and or close the account and cancel any Direct Debits.

You are the one actually in the wrong and in breach of contract for doing that.

No fraud or blackmail is happening here, other than you having a bee in your bonnet and making a bad decision on how to approach the situation

Willing2Learn

@markocosic

What exactly is the dispute you have with Virgin Media? I think you need to provide a little detail....

PRAISETHESUN

You need to go through the official complaints procedure, regardless of if you think you are 100% justified. Once Virgin reject your official (written) complaint, then you can escalate to try and get an independent resolution. The CRAs are not to blame here, as above they only report the information they are provided - and technically you did default by not paying your bills...

Personally, I think for the sake of £16 you've caused yourself a whole world of grief that probably wasn't worth it.

markocosic

Thanks all,


World of grief on a point of principle?

Absolutely agree in hindsight. I should have paid for the 30 days then sent them a much bigger invoice for lost income...which is exactly what I did with Green Star Energy* after having the patience to wait >2 years for resolution through all the channels designed to waste your time whilst they ignore you and hope you go away.

However at the time I was reasonably short tempered with Virgin for having wasted my time and became positively incendiary after their customer service folks rubbed me up the wrong way, and hadn't yet learned the patience now makes you unassailable later life lesson.

It hadn't had any adverse effect up until now though and I'd long since forgotten about it.


Original dispute was 4 (four) no-shows in a row to rectify a fault with their equipment. The £16 was an early termination charge they levied when I told them they'd breached the contract (to provide service) as far as I was concerned, that I'd had enough of giving them opportunities to rectify the situation, and was notifying them that they had broken our contract and that I was accepting this with immediate effect.

Can I do that? Their view was no, it was impossible for them to break the contract, and interpreted by notice of accepting their having broken the contract with immediate effect as notice of my intention to cancel in 30 days time; and that if I disagreed with this they'd refer the matter to the debt collectors and CRAs. I disagreed with this and said something along the lines of enter whatever you like on your system but as far as I'm concerned I've accepted you breaking the contract with immediate effect and will settle effective today. This was not contested or raised as a complaint at the time.

Could they decide not to provide service? My view was no. Even if it were in the contract that they expected to be paid whilst not delivering the service it wouldn't be reasonable.

Both parties were acting like five year olds here. One irate five year old whose paid for lunch but got nothing. Another five year old who took the cake and ate it.

The courts decide between five year olds. I doubt Virgin would be able to defend charging for non-service as fair or reasonable; especially after Ofcom ruled that ISPs contracts were unfair on the whole these days they'd have had to pay out a token £25 a pop for the missed appointments.



I follow that the CRA is only allowed to report what Virgin say, and that according to Virgin I gave 30 days notice then failed to pay the bill (whereas I think I accepted their breach with immediate effect).

I don't see how the CRA trying to make me accept that the debt is valid and I've defaulted on it isn't acting in cahoots with their clients to make things more favourable to them though. There's no justification for that.


So:

CRA - not their position to side with Virgin and try make me state the the debt is valid and undisputed; but not their position to remove disputed entries either

ICO - would probably take the position that the data is correct until such a time it is disproven in court?

Virgin - I could grovel and appeal to their better nature or failing that just exhaust their complaints procedure such that it goes to an independent adjudicator?


Is there any risk to the latter?

i.e. if it goes to an independent adjudicator and they make it less ambiguous by deciding that I'm in fact the naughty five year old rather than Virgin being the bully does this reset any clocks on the alleged debt becoming statue barred or falling off the credit file etc?


*They wouldn't issue a final bill or return my ~£235. I waited six months. Asked nicely for 6 months. Complained informally for 6 months and was fobbed ff. Raised an official complaint and was fobbed off. Referred to the ombudsman after 6 months. (who were so thoroughly impressed with Green Star Energy lying to cover their backs and being exposed by the paper trail they added £200 to the amount due back) Waited three months for them to fail to issue a final bill or return the amount due as directed by the ombudsman. (oh yes they're really that good) Invoiced them on 14 day terms for the amount due plus £25 per item of correspondence. Sent final notice before action to head of in house counsel with offer to take ~£535 in full and final settlement. Received phone phone call from highly amused lawyer who thought HR's job was a lot easier thanks to the paperwork and that the ~£535 should clear later that day. Life lesson? Listen to SWMBO. Be patient for a change. Then buy her a very nice dinner later... :rotfl:

[Deleted User]

Did you really just post personal identifiable information on a public forum?

Anyways that aside - you don’t really have a leg to stand on.

You left early and were charged and should have paid that charge.

Pay it. Get it settled and move on.

markocosic

Oops. Thanks for pointing that out!

(I'd copied that into an open email window before clicking submit in case the forum logged me out. It did. I logged back in and pasted it from the email into the forum but it picked up the email signature with the address in. Removed.)

Same question as above. Can simply paying this reset any clocks (flag the account as active) and delay it falling off the credit reference agency's list?

[Deleted User]

No.

The account will drop off your file 6 years from the date the default was applied.

PRAISETHESUN

There are two separate 6 year timers in play here - one for when it will fall off your credit report, and another for when the debt will become statute-barred (the period during which you could be taken to court for non-payment). The 6 year time for falling off your credit file is from the date the default was first recorded and as far as I know cannot be extended, whilst the statute-barred timer is 6 years from the last time you acknowledged the debt (either by paying it or writing to discuss/complain about it). Paying off the debt will mark the default as settled, but it will still be visible for 6 years unless you can persuade them to remove it (quite unlikely).