Got my ESA Tribunal Date but also have WCA for Universal Credit

calcotti

Should add that if tribunal finds OP not to have LCW but new WCA finds OP to have LCW the WCA decision will apply to UC immediately but if WCA finds OP to have LCWRA they will only get the LCWRA element from the fourth assessment period of their UC claim (in accordance with normal UC waiting period rules).

Alice_Holt

calcotti wrote: »

If the tribunal decision is in favour of OP and they get put in Support Group then they will indeed be entitled to the LCWRA element from the start of their UC claim. However the DWP can still, in my opinion, carry out a new WCA, I can't see anything to prevent this and it is happening frequently with UC claims. If this new WCA does not find OP to have LCWRA the LCWRA element will end - although OP can then MR and appeal the decision.

The new WCA does therefore override the tribunal but can only do so from the date of the new WCA decision.

Indeed.

There seems to have been a bit of confusion developing over the course of this thread (compounded by the complexities of UC, and adjoining ESA / UC appeals / WCA's etc)

1) The tribunal is looking at the DWP decision on the date that it was decided that the OP was no longer entitled to ESA.

2) If the OP is successful the tribunal decision will be for a closed period - it will cover the period up to the time that the UC claim was made. The OP will be put in the same financial position as if the DWP had made the correct decision in the first place.

3) If the OP had been claiming ESA prior to April 2017, a successful tribunal decision will mean he now has continuing ESA entitlement at the point of claiming UC.-
a) this will then entitle the OP to either the £126 LCW addition, or the £336 LCWRA UC addition (depending on which group the tribunal placed him in). This addition covers the period from first claiming UC to the date of the UC WCA.

4) The tribunal was no jurisdiction over the UC WCA decision. This is a entirely separate DWP decision, and the outcome of this will replace any existing award. If the UC WCA declares the OP fit for work, and he disagrees, he needs to challenge / appeal this UC decision. The UC WCA decision will not be overridden by the ESA tribunal decision.

It is also adds to the complexity that the UC WCA happens before the tribunal hearing, and that (if successful) the tribunal decision has a retrospective impact, overturning a previous DWP decision.

Lets hope both the UC WCA and the tribunal find in favour of the OP.

poppy12345

Alice_Holt wrote: »

There seems to have been a bit of confusion developing over the course of this thread (compounded by the complexities of UC, and adjoining ESA / UC appeals / WCA's etc)

Agreed. Which was started by new member CSMK, where most of the advice given was incorrect. Interesting considering what it states on their profile. :eek:

jasonwatkins

Alice_Holt wrote: »

Indeed.

There seems to have been a bit of confusion developing over the course of this thread (compounded by the complexities of UC, and adjoining ESA / UC appeals / WCA's etc)

1) The tribunal is looking at the DWP decision on the date that it was decided that the OP was no longer entitled to ESA.

2) If the OP is successful the tribunal decision will be for a closed period - it will cover the period up to the time that the UC claim was made. The OP will be put in the same financial position as if the DWP had made the correct decision in the first place.

3) If the OP had been claiming ESA prior to April 2017, a successful tribunal decision will mean he now has continuing ESA entitlement at the point of claiming UC.-
a) this will then entitle the OP to either the £126 LCW addition, or the £336 LCWRA UC addition (depending on which group the tribunal placed him in). This addition covers the period from first claiming UC to the date of the UC WCA.

4) The tribunal was no jurisdiction over the UC WCA decision. This is a entirely separate DWP decision, and the outcome of this will replace any existing award. If the UC WCA declares the OP fit for work, and he disagrees, he needs to challenge / appeal this UC decision. The UC WCA decision will not be overridden by the ESA tribunal decision.

It is also adds to the complexity that the UC WCA happens before the tribunal hearing, and that (if successful) the tribunal decision has a retrospective impact, overturning a previous DWP decision.

Lets hope both the UC WCA and the tribunal find in favour of the OP.

Thankyou. For the record, I've been on ESA almost since the day it was launched - I was moved from DLA, so I was definitely claiming it before April 2017.

calcotti

Thanks for expanding the detail of that, Alice.

huckster

I suppose it can also depend on the details.

What medical conditions and related issues were noted on the ESA claim and considered by ESA WCA, which the Tribunal will review ?

What medical conditions and related issues were advised on the UC claim and will be subject to WCA review?

I have seen examples of inconsistency with information. One WCA process can have complete information about all of of the medical conditions and how these affect them. For the same person, a further WCA process for same medical conditions does not have all of the information.

Agree with the posts that state a new WCA process can override any previous outcome including tribunal decision. However, it might actually depend on what the tribunal decision actually states. If it was stated that for the medical conditions listed, which are same as on UC claim, that the claimant should be treated as LCW for say 3 years, then either DWP appeal this or accept it. Then the WCA under UC won't be taking place until 3 years are up.

I would recommend the OP contact UC and assessment centre advising that Court Tribunal hearing on Wednesday for same medical conditions. They might postpone the WCA for a period.

jasonwatkins

huckster wrote: »

I would recommend the OP contact UC and assessment centre advising that Court Tribunal hearing on Wednesday for same medical conditions. They might postpone the WCA for a period.

The tribunal isn't on Wednesday - the medical is on Wednesday. The tribunal is scheduled for the 29th of this month.

And they won't postpone the WCA pending the outcome of the tribunal - i've already asked.

Alice_Holt

huckster wrote: »

I However, it might actually depend on what the tribunal decision actually states. If it was stated that for the medical conditions listed, which are same as on UC claim, that the claimant should be treated as LCW for say 3 years, then either DWP appeal this or accept it. Then the WCA under UC won't be taking place until 3 years are up.

Unfortunately the tribunal's recommendation of the length of the award, is only a recommendation. It is not binding on the DWP. The DWP can (and do) disregard the tribunal's opinion as to the length of the award.

huckster

jasonwatkins wrote: »

The tribunal isn't on Wednesday - the medical is on Wednesday. The tribunal is scheduled for the 29th of this month.

And they won't postpone the WCA pending the outcome of the tribunal - i've already asked.

Yes I realised after I posted that it was the WCA next week.

Who did you contact ? UC or assessment centre ?

The issue I can see, is this ending up with conflicting decisions. For exactly the same medical conditions, you could end up with tribunal deciding one thing and a UC decision maker coming to another decision.

DWP normally only have one health journey ( for ESA/UC) at a time to avoid these conflicts. If you have a current ESA health journey which will be decided at the tribunal, you should not really have a UC health journey for exactly the same medical conditions. Both UC and ESA use the same assessment company, same referral system. The problem is that ESA and UC don't talk to each other to advise what is going on. The rely on the claimant contacting UC to advise them and hoping some commonsense prevails. Obviously has not happened in this case.

Sounds like you are accepting you will have to attend on Wednesday and will let DWP decision makers decide based on all information. You are likely to get the tribunal decision before the UC WCA decision is advised, so I suggest that you provide UC with a copy of the tribunal decision letter if it is in your favour. Take it to the Job Centre and they will upload a copy onto the UC system, so the UC decision maker can take note of it.

jasonwatkins

huckster wrote: »

Yes I realised after I posted that it was the WCA next week.

Who did you contact ? UC or assessment centre ?

The issue I can see, is this ending up with conflicting decisions. For exactly the same medical conditions, you could end up with tribunal deciding one thing and a UC decision maker coming to another decision.

DWP normally only have one health journey ( for ESA/UC) at a time to avoid these conflicts. If you have a current ESA health journey which will be decided at the tribunal, you should not really have a UC health journey for exactly the same medical conditions. Both UC and ESA use the same assessment company, same referral system. The problem is that ESA and UC don't talk to each other to advise what is going on. The rely on the claimant contacting UC to advise them and hoping some commonsense prevails. Obviously has not happened in this case.

Sounds like you are accepting you will have to attend on Wednesday and will let DWP decision makers decide based on all information. You are likely to get the tribunal decision before the UC WCA decision is advised, so I suggest that you provide UC with a copy of the tribunal decision letter if it is in your favour. Take it to the Job Centre and they will upload a copy onto the UC system, so the UC decision maker can take note of it.

I contacted both the UC hotline and the assessment centre.

I was almost drawn into a shouting match with a very aggressive woman in the UC call centre who would not have any other line of questioning about why I had to attend both. She was shouting over me and cutting me off with everything I tried to ask so I ended up hanging up.