PILON - Holiday Question

Legacy_user

Although I do not have my exact date of redundancy I believe it will be on November 4th 2019, we will be asked to come in and made officially redundant then.

I've been told that we will lose 4 days holiday entitlement ( 2 days in November and 2 days in December), from what I've read we should also get our holiday entitlement for November as companies are obliged to give you what you would've had if it were a normal notice period.

Is anyone able to shed any light on this?

Many Thanks,

L

p00hsticks

If the date is that far away, won't the company be able to simply provide you with the contractually required notice before then ?

Or do you have an exceptionally long contractual notice period (the fact that you only mention November and December suggests it's two months) ?

System

Our company is being sold and has to go through all the legal jargon with the regulators and courts etc.

We have a meeting next week or the week after where we will be given our 'packs' and should then officially be 'put at risk' there's a chance that we will need to continue to work after November 4th if the transfer isn't successful hence having to come in and being made officially redundant on that day, i believe we will receive our PILON on the 4th as well.

getmore4less

Holiday accrual only needs to happen up to the date of termination.

IF PILON is paid there is no need for a company to accrue holiday during the period PILON covers as it is always possible for a company to have you take the holiday during that period so there is no excta pay due.

When the PILON could be paid free of TAX and NI, the company could also just pay net and keep the difference.

System

getmore4less wrote: »

Holiday accrual only needs to happen up to the date of termination.

IF PILON is paid there is no need for a company to accrue holiday during the period PILON covers as it is always possible for a company to have you take the holiday during that period so there is no excta pay due.

When the PILON could be paid free of TAX and NI, the company could also just pay net and keep the difference.

How can they make us take holiday after our termination?

My question isn't regarding pay, it's regarding accrual of holiday.

I have since read "Without contractual provision, a termination of employment with PILON is likely to be a breach of contract. Usually the employer would compensate for this by including all the remuneration and benefits the employee would have been entitled to during the notice period. To avoid later disagreement, some employers include a payment for any holiday that may have accrued during the period too, even though they may not technically be required to."

On http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=4540

I bit I want to understand is "even though they may not technically be required to" how it one to know if they are or are not required to?

getmore4less

The PILON payment is compensation for what you would have got if you had worked.

If you had worked and taken the holiday(which they can always ask you to do) there would be no extra money to pay for the holiday accrued during the PILON period, no loss for that accrued holiday.


the company has another option which is not PILON have you take all your accrued holiday then garden leave for the rest of the notice period.

end result is less pay, paid later.

System

getmore4less wrote: »

The PILON payment is compensation for what you would have got if you had worked.

If you had worked and taken the holiday(which they can always ask you to do) there would be no extra money to pay for the holiday accrued during the PILON period, no loss for that accrued holiday.


the company has another option which is not PILON have you take all your accrued holiday then garden leave for the rest of the notice period.

end result is less pay, paid later.

We can't can't gardening leave, hence the PILON.

Going by what you've said we should be compensated for the loss of two days holiday that we would've accrued had we been working and it should therefore be included in our PILON payment?

It's been said to us that we just lose these two days and that's that

getmore4less

No compensation for the holiday because if you had worked you could have been made to take it.

System

getmore4less wrote: »

No compensation for the holiday because if you had worked you could have been made to take it.

My employer is not in a position to make us take holiday, it's all hands on deck, so trying to make us take it is irrelevant.

You're using should've, would've, could've.

The facts are, we are not being made to take holiday, we lose two days holiday due to PILON, it doesn't seem fair that we should not be paid out for those days like we are for the rest of our holiday.

I supplied a link in a previous post, do you have any comment on that?

Thanks

getmore4less

The link is correct when PILON is in place you don't accrue holiday for the PILON period.

Forget period you will be working up to the termination date the rules for that are different and accrued unused holiday needs to be paid.

It is the period you won't be working and are getting a PILON payment they then don't need you to work so all hands on deck no longer applies.

The compensation is based on what you would have got paid had you worked, and in that case they have the option to have you take the holiday.



Why are you not part of the sale and getting terminated?

System

I am part of it, however we work until the transfer date that is the 4th, if transfer is successful over the weekend of Friday 1st, Saturday 2nd and Sunday 3rd when we come in on Monday that's when we will be given our notice on that day and be paid out PILON then.

This is because of the huge amount of Data that needs to be moved over, if that goes wrong we will need to continue working after the 4th. So, although we get a date we won't made redundant until they know everything was successful.