IMPORTANT: Please make sure your posts do not contain any personally identifiable information (both your own and that of others). When uploading images, please take care that you have redacted all personal information including number plates, reference numbers and QR codes (which may reveal vehicle information when scanned).

PCN from UK CPM for parking in own resident's space

Hi, looking for a bit of advice here

So I received a private PCN from UK CPM for parking in the designated parking area for my flat for not displaying a valid parking permit. I've appealed to UK CPM already - unsuccessfully of course - and it seems appealing to IAS is a waste of time, so I am in the process of writing a complaint to my landlord and UK CPM.

I’ve seen similar posts on this forum and moneysavingexpert, so I’ve collated the advice and I have used one of the template letters I’ve seen there (the Hairray case) but my scenario is slightly different, so thought it wise to get some more help on here.

For years, residents have not required a permit to park in the designated communal parking area but simply register their vehicle, as in the tenant information pack (N.B. this was just a few sheets of paper with information for tenants on - it wasn’t a contract and nowhere in the actual tenancy agreement was there any reference to parking).

This changed recently when with only 2-3 weeks notice, the management company introduced permits for the residents to park in the same area. Letters weren’t sent to the residents but signs placed on the entrance to each block of flats saying we should come collect our permits before the beginning of the month, when the permits and penalties would kick in.

Unfortunately, I was away for this notice period. I returned home to my flat on a Sunday night, outside of the management companies working hours, to find these signs to collect a permit. Yet given the time, there was nothing I could do to collect a permit.

I woke up in the morning with the full intention of getting my parking permit - at the earliest possible opportunity that I could - and low and behold, I find a PCN on my windscreen. I spoke to the management company who said they couldn’t do anything and instructed me to appeal the ticket to the parking company, UK Car Park Management.

Thanks in advance for any help you can give!
«1

Comments

  • zeelias
    zeelias Posts: 7 Forumite
    Here are the parking rules for my area, as defined in the tenancy agreement/tenants information pack:

    'Our parking is clearly marked around the site with yellow notice boards; please ensure that you park in these parking areas.

    DO NOT park to the right of (***description of prohibited area and land that does not belong to the landowner from whom I'm renting and belongs to the hospital, and I quote, 'they DO issue penalty tickets for whomever parks there'***)

    If you are in any doubt as to where you should park, please contact the Estate Office for clarification.

    Please register your vehicle details at the Estate Office; this will help us to ensure that we can maintain our car parking areas for use of our residents.'

    In addition to this, there are maps around the estate showing you in green where you can park and in red where you can't. Residents would inform the management company of you vehicle's registration number and that would be that. The resident's parking borders hospital parking - and they issue penalties if you park in their zone. The signage referred to in the tenant information pack was clear and simple, stating 'Parking for *** road residents'.
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 148,274 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    This changed recently when with only 2-3 weeks notice, the management company introduced permits for the residents to park in the same area. Letters weren’t sent to the residents but signs placed on the entrance to each block of flats saying we should come collect our permits before the beginning of the month, when the permits and penalties would kick in.

    Unfortunately, I was away for this notice period. I returned home to my flat on a Sunday night, outside of the management companies working hours, to find these signs to collect a permit. Yet given the time, there was nothing I could do to collect a permit.
    The MA can't impose this new permit scheme & charges on you all.

    See this thread:

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5997200/pcm-company-introduced

    The complaint to the MA there is far more recent and better than the hairray one.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
    Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • The_Deep
    The_Deep Posts: 16,830 Forumite
    PPCs have no place on private car parks, I am in the same position, read this

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5927955/my-management-company-wants-to-bring-in-cpm

    I think that I have scared them off, but I am the owner of two flats in the car park, so probably have a lot more clout than a tenant.

    Also worth a look at this.

    https://forums.landlordzone.co.uk/forum/residential-letting-questions/1053920-private-parking-companies

    Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams so complain to your MP.

    Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

    Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

    Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
  • nosferatu1001
    nosferatu1001 Posts: 12,961 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Third Anniversary Name Dropper
    As I said on the pepipoo thread, you need to check what YOUR CONTRACT says.
    Currenty you have no rights to park, at all, it seems.

    Focus on what legal grounds you have.
  • zeelias
    zeelias Posts: 7 Forumite
    Thanks for your replies! I'll have a closer look at those forum posts.

    I do have rights, as given by the management company/landlord designating which areas are available to park for said residents. They have clear signs around the car park next to the parking areas, which also state which block of residents are allowed to park there.

    If we're sticking strictly to their tenancy agreement, there is also no clause permitting any changes to the tenancy agreement - however reasonable. Most leases/contracts I've entered into usually have such clauses.
  • zeelias
    zeelias Posts: 7 Forumite
    I've read the posts - one post concerned what residents could do prior to the imposition of a new parking system. Getting the leaseholders to sign letters of complain - also that 75% had to agree to new legislation etc. before it could be introduced. Sadly, it is too late for that in my case. Way more than 75% have signed and agreed to the system, as they are displaying their permits. As mentioned in my letter, I've also felt pressed to do the same, for convenience sake. I've seen one car, whose owner is clearly not around, who has received 4 windscreen PCNs.

    The other post seemed very close to my decision and suggests a more concise letter to the landlord, referring to the salient points.

    All I really want them to do is write to UK CPM to get the PCN cancelled - my aim isn't to completely remove UK CPM from my car park (this would be nice but more onerous). The post suggested mentioning some recent cases and the new legislation regarding parking, plus complaining to my MP, which I'm likely to do.

    I've since compressed the letter to the - do you feel I need to make it any shorter?

    I am writing a formal letter of complaint to you regarding a paring fine imposed by UKCPM Ltd to me on 2nd June 2019, after the introduction of new parking permits that prior to their imposition, I was not consulted or consented to.

    Summary of the facts

    1. On ‘date’ I entered into a tenancy agreement with (“the Landowner” or “Landlord”) for the property (Property) and the right to park within a designated zone or parking area (referred to below separately as “the Flat”, “the Parking Area” and together as “the Property”).

    2. On that date I entered into a contract headed “Tenancy Agreement” (“the Tenancy”) with you and the Landowner (you were party to the Tenancy as the Management Company providing services pursuant to it).

    3. The Parking Area was clearly defined in the Information Pack accompanying the Tenancy as part of the demised property and was clearly identified in the plan appended to the Tenancy (see the attached map demarcating, in green, the area of the property that tenants were allowed to park).

    4. The terms of use of the residents Parking Area was clearly outline in the Information Pack and read as follows: “Our parking is clearly marked around the site with yellow notice boards; please ensure that you park in these parking areas.

    DO NOT park ** this land in front of the Staff Parking for *** belongs to the private company and they DO issue penalty tickets for whomever parks there.

    If you are in any doubt as to where you should park, please contact the Estate Office for clarification.

    Please register your vehicle details at the Estate Office; this will help us to ensure that we can maintain our car parking areas for use of our residents.

    5. The Tenancy granted me various rights and imposed upon us various obligations. Likewise, it granted and imposed various rights/obligations to/upon you as landowner.

    6. The rights granted to me are set out in Parts 7-11 of the Tenancy and are not relevant to this matter.

    7. The rights granted to you (section 12 of the Tenancy) relate to a) the receipt/collection of the Rent and to pay and indemnify the Tenant against all Service Charges levied in respect of the property except such outgoings for which the Tenant is liable under the Tenancy. c) (irrelevant to this matter) - the landlord’s obligations following fire or flood damage to the property. But significantly, b) the Tenant…may quietly possess and enjoy the Property during the Tenancy without any lawful interruption from the Landlord or any person claiming under or in trust for the Landlord.

    8. On ‘date May’, new parking regulations were introducing, requiring residents to display a parking permit in their vehicles in order to park in the designated Parking Area. Residents were notified during May by a few signs placed on the entrance to their respective blocks of flats, instructing them to collect their permits from the Estate Office. No other means of informing me was made - no letter, no email, no phone call etc. Given I was away from the Property in May and returned to the Property at approximately “time” on ‘date’, when the Estate Office was shut, it was physically impossible for me to collect said parking permit, yet the parking regulations had come into force. I collected my permit at the earliest possible opportunity when office working hours resumed, from the Estate Office and promptly displayed it in my vehicle, yet by then, I had already received a PCN. Despite explaining that it was impossible for me to have collected a permit prior to the new parking regulations coming into force, in my appeal to UK CPM, it was still unsuccessful.

    9. No clauses were present in the Tenancy permitting you to “impose and amend reasonable regulations regarding the use and enjoyment of properties in the Block or on the Estate and/or the Amenity Areas” or to “impose such regulations of general application regarding the Estate or the properties therein as it may in its absolute discretion think fit. I can reason with the introduction of parking permits in that they may indeed preserve the enjoyment of properties on the Estate for me, the Tenant, by prohibiting those that are not eligible to have a permit and thus park in the residents’ Parking Area. However, should the permit system punish the very people it has been brought in to protect, as in my case, it cannot be deemed fit for purpose and the Landlord is in breach of item 12b) under the Landlord’s obligations.

    10. In about May 2019, unknown to me, you engaged the services of UKCPM to carry out parking management on the Estate and you allowed them to introduce a permit system by which any car parked without a permit would be issued with a charge. Their engagement and this permit system were not communicated to me in any way. I was neither given a permit nor asked to display one. Following the introduction of the permit system, I was told signs were placed informing residents to collect their permits from the office but given I was not present on the Property during the period these signs were on display prior to the introduction of the permits, I was not privy to the instructions to which they pertained. I continued to park in the Parking Area, as I was entitled to do by the Tenancy Information pack.

    11. On ‘date’ I discovered a PCN fixed to the windscreen of my car which, at the time, was parked in the Parking Area. I noticed for the first time a single sign installed in the parking area, which was not visible when leaving the property to enter my car, which stated that permits must be displayed, failing which there would be a £100 charge. I cannot say when that sign was installed, other than that I am certain it was not there when I moved into the Flat on ‘date’. UKCPM claim that the sign imposes a contract on me, pursuant to which it can sue me for recovery of a charge of £100.

    12. Even if (which is not agreed) the introduction of parking management and a permit system were to come in, then it follows that:

    i. any new regulations, or amendments/revocation of existing regulations, must be communicated in advance directly to Tenants, otherwise how are they to know about them? The introduction of the new parking system was not communicated to me prior to the PCN , as set out above and below;
    ii. the Tenancy does not express that you have the right to impose upon me a contractual relationship with a third party (which UKCPM now claims), nor to levy a specific set charge payable either to you or to a third party (which UKCPM now seeks to recover) and which is separate to the Estate Rent charge (or the Additional Contribution to those which is provided for in the Tenancy), for any failure to comply.

    13. When I received the PCN I, unsuccessfully appealed to UKCPM and produced this fairly generic statement: ‘For a vehicle to be parked correctly a valid CPM parking permit must be clearly displayed within the vehicle windscreen at all times. The photographic evidence of your vehicle shows that at the time of the contravention a valid CPM parking permit was not displayed, therefore you were in breach of the parking restrictions and were subsequently issued with a parking charge notice’. They said I could appeal once more with IAS. I have since discovered that the IAS is owned and run by the same people who run and own the IPC (the parking ATA of which UKCPM is a member) and most people do not bother with appeals because they are not transparent and not independent.

    14. I attempted to obtain your assistance on three occasions but to no avail - firstly, in person, on ‘date’ at the Estate Office, then in writing via email at ‘time’ on ‘date’, to which I received no response. And a phone call on ‘date’, where the gentleman I spoke to, although polite, absolved your company of any responsibility pertaining to the parking charge, despite you entering into a contract with UK CPM and simply referred me back to them.

    15. I refer you to the cases of Jopson v Homeguard, Pace v Mr N and Saeed v Plustrade, which are authority for the proposition that a landowner cannot not derogate from its grant of pre-existing parking rights and that a parking company cannot interfere with a driver’s pre-existing rights to park. It was held in those cases that parking restrictions (including the introduction of a permit system) and parking charges which caused detriment to residents was in breach of the principle that “a grantor shall not derogate from his grant”.

    16. There is no provision in the Tenancy for you to require me to pay a “charge” of £100 for such failure (or for UKCPM to so on your behalf) and in any event you failed to communicate these new “regulations” to me. You claim that UKCPM did, but this is wrong. UKCPM has no right whatsoever to pursue me for a breach of contract because no contract with them can exist. In refusing to intervene, you are encouraging UKCPM to continue to harass me for payment, aggravating the breach of my rights under the Tenancy.


    17. When I became aware of the permit system following the PCN, I decided, purely for convenience and not because I accepted your right to impose any obligation on me (or any penalty/charge for failing to comply with such obligation) that I would display one.

    18. My position is therefore that by your actions, you have breached your obligations in 12b) because you have interrupted my right to peaceful enjoyment and this has caused me to suffer damage, distress and inconvenience.

    19. You had no right to allow or request UKCPM to unilaterally impose upon me a contractual obligation to display a permit or otherwise pay them £100, nor to authorise them to enter onto my Parking Area to issue my vehicle with a PCN or for any other reason. By doing so you have allowed UKCPM to interfere with my existing rights, and to commit an unlawful trespass.

    Summary of the facts

    20. From the tenancy, you were obliged to give me uninterrupted quiet enjoyment of the Property;

    21. The right to introduce new “regulations” was not inferred in the tenancy and even if was reasonable regulations were granted, it should not include the right to impose a contractual relationship between me and a third party (UKCPM) in relation to the Property, nor the right to impose a specific charge, payable to a third party (UKCPM) for any breach of those regulations, nor does it permit you to impose onerous obligations in respect of the Parking Area to which I already had exclusive rights and the right to quiet enjoyment.

    22. In authorising/requiring UKCPM to carry out management of the car parking on the Estate, including the Parking Area, and authorising/requiring them to introduce and enforce a permit system, you have breached your obligation, 12b) in the Tenancy, namely to give me quiet enjoyment without interruption.

    23. Whatever arrangements exist between you and UKCPM they cannot interfere with, nor alter, the terms of the Tenancy. Furthermore, whatever agreement exists between you and UKCPM to manage the car park, its intention was clearly that it should be for the intended benefit of the permit holders – it would go wholly against the intention of the Tenancy for it to empower UKCPM to sue permit holders.

    24. You failed to give me ample notice of the new “regulation” (which must be an implied term of the Tenancy) and neither did you provide me with a permit, leaving me unaware of and unable to comply with the new “regulation”.

    25. Your actions amount to a breach of your covenant to give me uninterrupted quiet enjoyment of the Property.

    26. You have no right to enter my Property, save in accordance with the Tenancy. You therefore had no right to authorise or request UKCPM to enter onto the Parking Area in order to put a PCN on my vehicle. This unauthorised entry was a trespass for which you and UKCPM are jointly and severally liable.

    Solution

    I am looking to reach a reasonable and amicable conclusion of this case. I implore you to intervene with UKCPM and arrange the cancellation of the PCN. As stated, there was no way I could have reasonably obtained a parking permit prior to 2nd June, as I was not present during the notice period. Yet, as a resident, I was clearly eligible for one.

    If you fail to cancel the PCN with UKCPM, I intend to take the matter further and make a claim against you for damages arising out of breach of contract and trespass, together with the court fees and legal costs incurred. Added to this will also be any additional fees or charges which UKCPM or their debt collectors may seek to add to the current £100 sought, along with loss of earnings and legal fees.

    In accordance with the Practice Direction, I will wait for 10 days before taking any further action. You will appreciate that I am bound by a timetable because UKCPM continues to threaten proceedings against me. If I have not heard from you within this time, then I will proceed to apply to join you as a party to any claim issued by UKCPM and/or issue a claim against you without further notice.

    Yours faithfully,
  • nosferatu1001
    nosferatu1001 Posts: 12,961 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Third Anniversary Name Dropper
    No. Check your TA. That setsou t the contractual rights you have. If you have no rights set out there, then they can do whatever they wish with their parking arrangements.
  • NeilCr
    NeilCr Posts: 4,430 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 1,000 Posts Name Dropper
    edited 3 July 2019 at 8:51AM
    Just because people are doing it (displaying permits) doesn't mean they've voted in favour of it. Many will have gone along with it because

    a) they didn't know about the 75% vote "rule". Some will be tenants who wouldn't have a vote anyway

    b) they agree with the scheme

    c) they have just accepted it

    I agree with nosferatu here. It's a different case to where the space is actually demised to you through the lease/tenancy agreement. From what you say you can park anywhere in the permitted area as long as you have a permit. I wonder if they now have a problem with hospital visitors parking on your site?

    Having said that, given the circumstances, I do think the ManCo/landlord should press for a cancellation. Might be worth trying again
  • The_Deep
    The_Deep Posts: 16,830 Forumite
    If the scammers have got it wrong it could be costly for them. Read this

    https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/324523-ukpc-liable-for-trespass-success/
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
  • zeelias
    zeelias Posts: 7 Forumite
    Is it possible for a landlord to make changes to a contract/tenancy agreement without notifying the tenant or obtaining consent from them?

    Is it possible for a landlord to make changes to a contract/tenancy agreement without a clause saying that the contract can be amended? This seems like a pretty standard clause - one I've put in employment contracts, yet it is nowhere to be found in this tenancy agreement.

    The agreement defines the area residents can park and says nothing of permits. This was brought in recently and it the topic of discussion.
This discussion has been closed.
Meet your Ambassadors

🚀 Getting Started

Hi new member!

Our Getting Started Guide will help you get the most out of the Forum

Categories

  • All Categories
  • 349.9K Banking & Borrowing
  • 252.6K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
  • 453K Spending & Discounts
  • 242.8K Work, Benefits & Business
  • 619.6K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
  • 176.4K Life & Family
  • 255.7K Travel & Transport
  • 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
  • 16.1K Discuss & Feedback
  • 15.1K Coronavirus Support Boards

Is this how you want to be seen?

We see you are using a default avatar. It takes only a few seconds to pick a picture.