Reaplce brake calipers with discs if MOT failed on discs only?

ryba

Hi MSE,


Car: Renault Twingo Dynamique (2008, 1149cc)



I run into unexpected problems with a car I'm trying to sell and could really use your advice. My car failed MOT due to several problems with the brakes, a worn tyre and a broken suspension spring.


The 'notification of refusal' lists the brakes problems as:
-Brake Disc/Drum;corroded/pitted;Nearside front;Offside front;inner
-Brake pipe(s);not sufficiently clean;Offside front
-Brake pipe(s);not sufficiently clean;Nearside front


I'm wondering whether the "Corroded Brake Discs" include brake calipers or if they would be listed on their own line if they also needed replaced. I ask because the majority of the rust that I can see is on the calipers themselves but MOT guys did not say anything about them. I took some pictures to give you an idea of what state they're in. Can't post a link here because I'm a new user but you can find the album on imgur by adding /a/Hu1i0eo to the URL. The bottom two pics were taken with flash on which makes it look a bit worse than when you look at them with naked eye.


The brake discs were replaced about 2 years ago which I don't think is that long. I think that the main reason why they have rust on them is because I moved to the city and was barely driving the car. Done 4k miles over the last year. With that being said I already own a spare set of brake discs and pads which I purchased earlier this year (but ended up not needing) so this isn't a problem. However I'm worried that the car won't pass a retest if I don't replace the calipers. What do you guys think? They seem to be quite expensive to buy.



A few additional questions:
-I just noticed that I can't pay the road tax (which expires tomorrow) without a valid MOT. Will I be able to legally drive to a car repair shop without road tax after tomorrow? How about driving for an MOT retest?
-Could you guys recommend any honest mechanics in Belfast? Ideally somebody who would be able to run the repairs today or on Monday at the latest? Leaving for holiday on Tuesday morning so would need to book an MOT retest for Monday evening.
-What would be a reasonable price for sorting out the brakes (discs + pipes cleaning) if I provide the discs? Had a suspension spring done for £90 before and a new tyre should be around £50.



Would greatly appreciate any help. Thanks.

AdrianC

Discs are a consumable. They wear, and their friction faces get rusty if they're not used. The should clean up very quickly.
Calipers shouldn't be a consumable - they'll last forever if properly maintained.

You really need to pull the wheels off and have a look. If the car is in regular use, and the friction face is unevenly corroded, then the caliper's probably seizing, so the pad isn't contacting fully - in that case, you're going to need to give the calipers a stern glare, at the very least - might just be the sliders stuck, might be the caliper itself, especially if brake fluid changes have been neglected.

owen_money

AdrianC wrote: »

Calipers shouldn't be a consumable - they'll last forever if properly maintained.

Forever? The seals will fail at some point, unless you consider seal replacement part of 'proper maintenance'? Interesting

owen_money

AdrianC wrote: »

Calipers shouldn't be a consumable - they'll last forever if properly maintained.

Forever? The seals will fail at some point, unless you consider seal replacement part of 'proper maintenance'? Interesting

Enough calipers must fail as Brake engineering have made a business out of re-manufacturing them, but they must just be the ones that haven't been properly maintained correctly?

AdrianC

owen_money wrote: »

Forever? The seals will fail at some point, unless you consider seal replacement part of 'proper maintenance'? Interesting

Enough calipers must fail as Brake engineering have made a business out of re-manufacturing them, but they must just be the ones that haven't been properly maintained correctly?

Yup. Brake fluid changes (or lack thereof).

A lot of older Citroens use LHM fluid, instead of DOT brake fluid. It's not hygroscopic. Calipers last forever, even the seals.

owen_money

Seals wont last forever, they may out last the life of the car but at some point will wear/degrade.

Sorry, just saw it was AdrianC that made the statement. In that case they will last forever and you are right as always

ryba

Okay guys, thanks for your input. I managed to drop the car off with a mechanic who's friends with my mate. Hopefully I won't get ripped off as usually.

In regards to this:

ryba wrote: »

I'm wondering whether the "Corroded Brake Discs" include brake calipers or if they would be listed on their own line if they also needed replaced.

The mechanic says that calipers would be listed as a separate item on the 'notification of refusal' if the car failed on that.

Last question:
-I applied for SORN after dropping the car off at the garage. Any idea whether I can drive it to an MOT appointment without insurance when it's fixed?

On gov[dot]uk/sorn-statutory-off-road-notification and gov[dot]uk/vehicle-insurance/uninsured-vehicles I read that:

1. the car does not have to be insured if it is SORN,
2. I can drive to and from an MOT appointment without road tax while on SORN.

After reading this one could conclude that you can drive to and from an MOT appointment without insurance. Is that right?

Does the same apply to Northern Ireland? gov[dot]uk states that uninsured vehicle laws are different in NI and redirects to nidirect[dot]gov[dot]uk/articles/motor-insurance-explained for details. However that page does not provide any information on driving to an MOT appointment on SORN and without insurance.

Mutton_Geoff

You cannot drive on a public road without insurance.

marlot

ryba wrote: »

...
-I applied for SORN after dropping the car off at the garage. Any idea whether I can drive it to an MOT appointment without insurance when it's fixed?...

No!


But if the garage doing the repair have a set of trade plates, ask them to drop the car back to the MOT centre.

Joe_Horner

ryba wrote: »

The 'notification of refusal' lists the brakes problems as:
-Brake Disc/Drum;corroded/pitted;Nearside front;Offside front;inner
-Brake pipe(s);not sufficiently clean;Offside front
-Brake pipe(s);not sufficiently clean;Nearside front

If that's the actual wording used then I'd get the MOT re-done somewhere that doesn't invent their own fail points.

"Not sufficiently clean" is NOT a valid reason for failing brake pipes!

eta: In fact, thinking about it (and checking in the manual in case things had changed on the updates), "corroded and pitted" isn't a valid fail for a disk either.

They can ONLY fail for wear, fractures, insecurity , contamination, or being missing. There's even a note regarding wear:

"A brake disc or drum must be significantly worn before you should reject it. Being worn below the manufacturer’s recommended limits is not a reason in itself."