Is our builder trying to con us?

sam_arnold

We are well educated pensioners but I am beginning to suspect that we are being taken for a ride by a builder playing on our better nature.
Before work was started we researched on line references and went to see work he had carried out nearby.
They did half a days work the first week and then bits at a time (estimate 4-5 days total). Work has still not been completed over eight weeks after starting. The job was originally quoted to take one to two weeks. This has caused problems with neighbours (a separate issue) .
When we queried the delay we were given many excuses that I feel played on our sympathy. Eventually the builder advised that he had split from his partner company but not to worry he would still complete the work.
We agreed to pay in instalments as work progressed. We paid some instalments before they were due. Final payment was due on completion. Last week we paid £1000 advance on the final payment as builder did some work then said he would not be able to return next day to finish without this, cash, payment. He did not return the next day. One of his employees (who told us he has not been paid wages) arrived two days later and worked very hard but did not have time to complete the work. Whilst he was working we received a telephone message from builder asking us to give final payment in cash to their employee. We refused as work had not been completed as per quote. We were told that payment must be made before scaffolding and skips would be removed from site. Again we refused to pay final instalment until work was completed. The quote included cleaning up after work completed and in our opinion outside of property could not be cleaned whilst dusty scaffolding and skip were still in place.
There are still a few jobs to be completed but we feel that the cash we have paid to date is equivalent to the work carried out so far. They have also done damage property which they have not put right.

It is now weekend and our solicitor, CAB, etc. are closed until Monday. I should be grateful for any advice or opinions anyone can offer.

ruperts

The builder could have legitimate cash flow issues, but they're not really your problem. If you agreed to pay in installments on completion of sections of the work (is this in writing?) then stick to your guns. If he wants the money he'll have to do the work.

VfM4meplse

Wrong board I'm afraid - Corny? :wave:

That said, I have a huge amount of sympathy with you, your position is incredibly frustrating and stressful but from what you have described is mild compared to the potential for mayhem. There are definitely to many cowboy builders about, who know exactly who they can take advantage of, those that willingly pay up before the job is completed are at the top of the list.

parking_question_chap

Dont pay any more cash advances as it sounds like cash flow problems. They will need to come back to complete as the scaffold and skip are probable costing them per day or week.

How large are the jobs that need doing? If you are happy to pay somebody else to sort you need to give your current builder written notification of this intention and the opportunity to complete the job. I am not sure on the timescales but somebody else might be better placed to advise.

Edit. Above, dont be quick to label people cowboy builders. There are just as many "cowboy customers" who dont pay on time or unjustly withold payments. This causes good builders cash flow problems and therefore can impact on their next jobs and customers.. Small companies do not have tens of thousands of cash reserves and rely on prompt payments.

VfM4meplse

parking_question_chap wrote: »

Edit. Above, dont be quick to label people cowboy builders. There are just as many "cowboy customers" who dont pay on time or unjustly withold payments. This causes good builders cash flow problems and therefore can impact on their next jobs and customers.. Small companies do not have tens of thousands of cash reserves and rely on prompt payments.

No professional person could get away with the tricks that builders pull, including turning up when they want to and gross unreliability. Who do they account to? Precisely no one but Companies House when they decide to dissolve their company.

Could a dentist get away with acting in the same way?

Mistral001

This is a judgement call the OP has to make. It might seem to the OP as an open and shut case of breach of contract and the law will be on their side, but consider the following:

1. The builder might go bust and the OP will probably have to pay a lot more that £1000 to get the job finished if they are able to get another builder to take on the work. This will all be totally legal.

2. The OP says that they " feel that the cash we have paid to date is equivalent to the work carried out so far", but do they know this to be correct? The builder might be able to prove otherwise and get a professional to verify it in which case the OP could find themselves on the losing side of any legal action.

sam_arnold

Thanks everyone.
We have had great service from builders in the past who are now enjoying a well earned retirement.
Payment instalment times are in writing. Whilst we are certain builder has cash flow problems, and sympathise with them, going on their past actions (or lack of them) we fear we could pay them before work is complete and never see them again. To be honest we could probably finish the work ourselves but there is a lot of cleaning up to do. He has also damaged someone property which he verbally promised to sort before final payment.
I wonder if there would be any legal complications if we contacted scaffolding and skip owners and told them of the situation? I don't want to end up being asked to pay them too!

CARRYONFILM12

VfM4meplse wrote: »

No professional person could get away with the tricks that builders pull, including turning up when they want to and gross unreliability. Who do they account to? Precisely no one but Companies House when they decide to dissolve their company.

Could a dentist get away with acting in the same way?

For a while. Ouch.

sam_arnold

Thank you for your response Mistral 001.
May I stress that we are not refusing to pay remaining portion of final instalment. It will be paid as soon as work completed as agreed. Younger friends and family are concerned that we paid other instalments well before they were due and no progress and are of the opinion that we are being taken for a ride.

Ted_Bloke

You are being pressured to pay something due after contract execution when the contract has not been executed. If you did not pay what you genuinely owe he has few worries,It would be a nuisance but he will get it out of you and more in the end. Believe me, you would not be spared threats in that eventuality. On the other hand , if you do pay what you do not owe yet, you will never get it back when he goes bankrupt as by the sound of it probably will. Do not get into discussions, by which he is obviously trying to pressure and manipulate you. Take weekend off, go away, don't answer phone if pressure is happening.If you are cornered into conversing, just repeat like a broken record that you will pay after, and only after, completion of the work as contracted. Refer him to your solicitor if and when you have involved one.

Some of us are brought up to be nice, understanding, accommodating. When this is used and it is likely to cost us a lot, we need to act in a different way.

Just my opinion, but as said,You would get sounder reactions from a more appropriate forum.

Mistral001

sam_arnold wrote: »

I wonder if there would be any legal complications if we contacted scaffolding and skip owners and told them of the situation? I don't want to end up being asked to pay them too!

What would you say to them? You are not a customer. They do not have a contract with you. Their scaffolding and skip might be on your property, but if they remove it without receiving instructions from their customer, the builder, they could be held in breach of contract.