PIP Assesment Report 0 Points

Laurasx

So i applied for PIP for anxiety and depression.
I've just received the assesment report which contains quite a few errors.
So i take 20mg citalopram but shes stated I take 10mg and I've been taking this since January (6 months) but shes stated I've been taking it for 3 months. (I also take another anti depressant and beta blockers). I am also on a waiting list to get specialised help and have received specialised help on and off for 10 years.

Throughout the report shes given me 0 points on the basis that i am on a low dose of anti depressants that ive only recently started taking (3 months) and dont receive specialised help. For example i stated i only shower 1-2 times a week / only cook a meal once every 2 weeks and she's given me 0 points on the basis that I'm on a low dose that I've not been taking for very long and dont receive specialised help.

In the report she says i get no more than a weeks worth of medication due to suicidal thoughts (i get a months worth and my mom has to look after it as I've taken overdoses) and i also forget to take meds but shes given me 0 points on the basis that i don't have a condition that effects my memory - depression/anxiety does effect your memory ? And regardless i cant have all my medication because of suicidal thoughts? So how is that 0 points?

I think the descriptor that shocked me the most was engaging with others. Her main reason for 0 points being low dose / no specialised help she also says that although my mom was with me at the assesment i did not need her to speak - this is a complete lie, my mom had to answer several questions on my behalf as i was crying and shaking so badly. She also states that my hand was visibly shaking then a couple of lines down she says i wasnt visibly trembling? So a complete contradiction.

Another descriptor that really confused me was planning journeys. I stated clearly i cant go on unfamiliar journeys but i can make familiar journeys and this is in the report but she states "she can make familiar journeys she can not go on an unfamiliar journey alone she reports she is able to meet friends" but she's still given me 0 points. I stated i meet friends at my house or at a familiar place. She clearly states i can make familiar journeys but doesnt actually state i can make unfamiliar journeys so i dont understand how i got 0 points for that?

I called the pip line and asked them to make a note on my case of all the inaccuracies. She's stated im on the wrong dose of medication and used it as her main reason for denying me any points so is it likely that this will make a difference? Im guessing im going to have to have a MR is it likely i will succeed since their are contradictions in the report and some complete lies? And do you have to be receiving specialised treatment to get points?

agentk

All of the above 40 mg citroaplam sectioned once voluntary once. 0 points. stated as i knew i was paraoniod and had anxiety i was their for not ill enough thats what it read like. I was that bad i walked out on 25k job with db pension/ and sick pay . would well person do this!

Alice_Holt

Many PIP assessments are badly flawed, it is unlikely that your MR will succeed on solely these errors.
Be prepared to go onto tribunal as only c.18% of MR's are allowed.

In both the MR and appeal you need to concentrate of why and how the requisite descriptors / points should have been awarded:
https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/personal-independence-payment-pip/pip-self-test
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/808855/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria.pdf

Note the importance of reliably:
"‘Reliably’ - the most important PIP word
It’s vital that, before you complete your form, you understand that just because you can carry out an
activity, that doesn’t mean you are prevented from scoring points for being unable to do it.
Guidance issued by the DWP states that you need to be able to complete an activity ‘reliably’ in
order for it to apply. According to the guidance, ‘reliably’ means whether you can do so:
• Safely – in a fashion that is unlikely to cause harm to themselves or to another person. (See the
‘Safety and supervision’ section immediately below for more on this).
• To a necessary and acceptable standard – given the nature of the activity.
• Repeatedly – as often as is reasonably required.
• In a reasonable time period no more than twice as long as a person without a physical or mental
health condition would take to carry out the activity."
From the B & W guide.

This is a useful guide to the appeal process:
https://www.advicenow.org.uk/guides/how-win-pip-appeal
and for the MR:
https://www.advicenow.org.uk/pip-tool
https://www.gov.uk/mandatory-reconsideration

See if your local advice centre / CAB can help you. If not consider joining Benefits & Work as their appeal guide is good (but membership costs c.£20 pa)

Medical evidence, and confirmation letters from carers & family members of the help you need around the PIP descriptors are very helpful.

Good luck.

Where do you think the 8 points for a standard DL award should come from?

Laurasx

Hi thanks for your replies

I suffer with anxiety/depression and the descriptors i felt matched up with me most were the cooking a meal, taking nutrition, washing, managing medication and socialising. Then for following a journey (cant go anywhere unfamiliar alone)
The main issue for me is lacking motivation to eat/cook/clean, forgetting to take meds and being too anxious to socialise.

An example from my report is the assessor acknowledges this but says "states lacks motivation does shower 1-2 days a week. she reports lacks motivation and she has anti depressants that have recently changed however she has no specialist input since last year".

Another example is i said i forget to take my medication almost every day but she said "she has no condition that affects her memory".

I think the one that confused me most was planning a journey as she states "she can go on a familiar journey she can not go on an unfamiliar journey she meets up with friends" in the report it says 3 times i can not go on a unfamiliar journey and acknowledges i came to the assesment centre with my mom and says i couldnt have done it alone but shes still given me 0 points. I had a panic attack as i arrived which isnt mentioned in the report so guessing thats why shes given me 0 points again.

This is what really confuses me because she acknowledges the reasons why e.g: motivation for all of the descriptors but then goes on to say that as ive changed meds recently (untrue anyway) / low dosage (also untrue) / no specialised help.

Even when i have had specialised help the problems have been the same and ive been on countless different medication on low and high doses and none have made a difference (all of this i said to her). I've had these mental health problems for 9 years so i really have tried a lot of different options! I was receiving counselling last year but was referred back to the gp when that finished and am currently on a waiting list to see a psychiatrist. In my experience you're only given so many sessions and referred back to the gp after so long so how can not receiving specialised help mean that i dont have these problems? I just cant believe that's an actual reason they can list.

Throughout the report theres a lot of contradictions in 1 part she says i was calm and collected and another part she says i was experiencing moderate to high anxiety. 1 line she says "she did not appear to be trembling" then a couple lines down it says "her hand was visibly shaking".

I just dont understand what the point of even having the assesment was if all i said was on the forms anyway and almost everything i said shes noted but dismissed due to being on a "low dose" and having "no specialised help"

Laurasx

Basically its like the report is saying i would get points if i was receiving specialised support - are you not entitled to pip if youre waiting for support?

Laurasx

Basically all my problems do line up with the descriptors and the assessor doesnt seem to disagree shes basically saying its not my depression causing the problems since im on a "low dose" she said i take 10mg citalopram when i actually take 20mg (told her about 3 times during the assesment). Ive taken up to 40mg of citalopram but ny doctors agreed 20mg was the best dose for me. Feels like if i was on a higher dose and receiving counselling i would have gotten my award which is ridiculously unfair since waiting lists are around a year.

Alice_Holt

Assessment reports are frequently full of cut and paste phrases.

The implication that "no specialised help" means that the condition is not sufficiently severe to award points is frequently used by assessors. Tribunal panels rarely find this a credible argument, particularly when there is a long-term history of poor mental health and of past interventions. They recognise that assessing "specialist help in today's NHS is very difficult. And indeed the fact that you are on a waiting list to see a psychiatrist renders the assessor's implications completely meaningless.

The engaging with people descriptor looks at face to face social situations - such as seeing a GP, going to appointments etc. Think about how your anxiety impacts on these situations. Do you need someone with you to conduct the exchange reliably. Having your mum with you at the assessment suggests you might.

Look more widely at "needing prompting" in all the descriptors. You say "The main issue for me is lacking motivation to eat/cook/clean, forgetting to take meds and being too anxious to socialise. "
In terms of PIP points this is likely to translate to:
1d. Needs prompting to be able to either prepare or cook a simple meal. 2 points;
3b (ii) supervision, prompting or assistance to be able to manage medication. 1 point;
9c. Needs social support to be able to engage with other people. 4 points.
That gives you 7 Daily Living points. For an award 8 are required.

Look at household budgeting - how does your anxiety affect this. Does anyone help you?

Re dressing, washing - do you need to be prompted to on the majority of days to do this activity reliably?

Have a careful look at the links I have posted - there is a lot of really useful info there.
The first stage is to see how you get to the 8 points for the Daily Living component. Remember "reliably" and "on the majority of days". Go through these with a close family member, and think about the help you need with these activities.
In your MR concentrate on explaining why and how the relevant descriptors apply to you. (You may have already put good examples on your PIP 2 form).
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/pip/appeals/mandatory-reconsideration/

Alice_Holt

Laurasx wrote: »

Basically its like the report is saying i would get points if i was receiving specialised support - are you not entitled to pip if youre waiting for support?

Quite.
It's a very flawed argument by the assessor.
As I've noted above, it's not a likely to be seen as a credible reason to deny PIP by an independent tribunal panel.

The tribunal panel will focus on the PIP descriptors, they will not try to find an inaccurate excuse to avoid granting you a PIP award. The tribunal are very thorough, and have to justify their decision in law.

Look at this: https://www.buzzfeed.com/emilydugan/most-dwp-benefits-cases-which-reach-court-are-based-on-bad
"Britain’s most senior tribunal judge says most of the benefits cases that reach court are based on bad decisions where the Department for Work and Pensions has no case at all.
Sir Ernest Ryder, senior president of tribunals, also said the quality of evidence provided by the DWP is so poor it would be “wholly inadmissible” in any other court."

calcotti

Alice_Holt wrote: »

Look at this: https://www.buzzfeed.com/emilydugan/most-dwp-benefits-cases-which-reach-court-are-based-on-bad
"Britain’s most senior tribunal judge says most of the benefits cases that reach court are based on bad decisions where the Department for Work and Pensions has no case at all.
Sir Ernest Ryder, senior president of tribunals, also said the quality of evidence provided by the DWP is so poor it would be “wholly inadmissible” in any other court."

Thanks for reminding us of that one, Alice.

Alice_Holt

calcotti wrote: »

Thanks for reminding us of that one, Alice.

And, of course, the success rate for PIP tribunal appeals is running at around 72%.

Alice_Holt

Alice_Holt wrote: »

And, of course, the success rate for PIP tribunal appeals is running at around 72%.

My mistake, it's now at 73% !!
https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/news/3910-pip-and-esa-appeal-success-at-highest-rate-ever