Section 21- have the letting agents made a mistake

PayOffTheLoans

Hi all

I have read the excellent guide to ended an AST but just wanted to clarify a something about my situation.

I have received a section 21 notice today giving me 2 months notice on my flat and asking me to vacate on the 21st August 2019.

I have an AST which runs from 18th August 2018- 17th August 2019. I pay my rent on the 18th of the month.

I have requested to continue as a periodic tenancy and even accepted a rent increase but the letting agent has said they will only agree to a 12 month tenancy. Probably because the letting agent then gets the fee for the last time... There have been no problems with the tenancy but as I am in the process of buying, I am writing directly to the landlord as I suspect they have no really knowledge of what is going on.

My questions are

1. When should my notice period be valid from? I thought I should have been given 2 calendar months in which case the notice date should be 17th September 2019 and therefore this section 21 is invalid. They have complied with all other aspects of the section 21.

2. If it is invalid, should I acknowledge I have received it or just ignore them until nearer the time and then let them try and take us to court.

3. If I am staying an extra month do you think it would show good intentions to pay the extra amount requested on the 18th August. It is a fair amount and I am happy to do this

4. If it is valid and I have interpreted wrong, how should I calculate the rent I would need to pay from the 17th-21st of August?

I would appreciate your help as the extra month could mean the difference between forking out 100s on storage costs and accommodation whilst we complete on our house and a smooth moving experience.

I also harbour no hard feelings towards the landlady as she has unfortunately left it fully managed. However, I want to do everything properly and give no leeway as the letting agents are a truly awful bunch and seem to forget their legal obligations

Thanks so much for your help and the excellent information provided by people on this site

G_M

PayOffTheLoans wrote: »

Hi all

I have read the excellent guide to ended an AST but just wanted to clarify a something about my situation.

I have received a section 21 notice today giving me 2 months notice on my flat and asking me to vacate on the 21st August 2019.

I have an AST which runs from 18th August 2018- 17th August 2019. I pay my rent on the 18th of the month.
so subject to everything else being correct, that seems a valid S21.

I have requested to continue as a periodic tenancy and even accepted a rent increase but the letting agent has said they will only agree to a 12 month tenancy.
You can certainly allow the tenancy to become periodic on 17th August.
But the LL/agent can then rely on the S21 to apply tocourt on the 21st Aug.

Probably because the letting agent then gets the fee for the last time... There have been no problems with the tenancy but as I am in the process of buying, I am writing directly to the landlord as I suspect they have no really knowledge of what is going on.
good idea.Or invite him to tea and bake a nice madeira cake....

My questions are

1. When should my notice period be valid from? As far as I can see, I should have been given 2 calendar months in which case the notice date should be 17th September 2019 and therefore this section 21 is invalid. They have complied with all other aspects of the section 21.
today is 21st June. Two months notice takes you to 21st August.

2. If it is invalid, should I acknowledge I have received it or just ignore them until nearer the time and then let them try and take us to court. it appears to be valid.

3. If I am staying an extra month do you think it would show good intentions to pay the extra amount requested on the 18th August. It is a fair amount and I am happy to do this
if you stay beyond 17th August
* LL may apply to court on 21st and court costs may be passed to you
* if he does not, you will have to serve your own notice, aligned with the tenancy periods (18th - 17th each month)

4. If it is valid and I have interpreted wrong, how should I calculate the rent I would need to pay from the 17th-21st of August?
See the calculation in the Deregulation Act here.

See also
S21 checklist (Is a S21 valid?)


This is slightly out of date due to the Tenant Fees Act, (anyone know an up-to-date version???) but is still a good check list.

PayOffTheLoans

Thanks, I’d just read around a little bit more and I agree with all your points. I had misinterpreted with the fact that we needed to give calendar month notice but the section 21 doesn’t.

I appreciate your point about the landlord, but actually they are good friends with the neighbours who I’ve just had a chat to and unsurprisingly they haven’t been made aware of anything.

Hopefully things will move forward with our house soon enough.

System

G_M wrote: »

See also
S21 checklist (Is a S21 valid?)


This is slightly out of date due to the Tenant Fees Act, (anyone know an up-to-date version???) but is still a good check list.

These are June 1st compliant




Form 6A Notice seeking possession of a property let on an Assured Shorthold Tenancy

Housing Act 1988 section 21(1) and (4) as amended by section 194 and paragraph 103 of Schedule 11 to the Local Government and Housing Act 1989 and section 98(2) and (3) of the Housing Act 1996




Please write clearly in black ink. Please tick boxes where appropriate.


This form should be used where a no fault possession of accommodation let under an assured shorthold tenancy (AST) is sought under section 21(1) or (4) of the Housing Act 1988.


There are certain circumstances in which the law says that you cannot seek possession against your tenant using section 21 of the Housing Act 1988, in which case you should not use this form. These are:


(a) during the first four months of the tenancy (but where the tenancy is a replacement tenancy, the four month period is calculated by reference to the start of the original tenancy and not the start of the replacement tenancy – see section 21(4B) of the Housing Act 1988);


(b) where the landlord is prevented from retaliatory eviction under section 33 of the Deregulation Act 2015;


(c) where the landlord has not provided the tenant with an energy performance certificate, gas safety certificate or the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government’s publication “How to rent: the checklist for renting in England” (see the Assured Shorthold Tenancy Notices and Prescribed Requirements (England) Regulations 2015);


(d) where the landlord has not complied with the tenancy deposit protection legislation;


(e) where a property requires a licence but is unlicensed


(NB see section 75 of the Housing Act 2004 which relates to Houses in Multiple Occupation (“HMO”); or


(f) where the landlord is prevented under section 17 of the Tenant Fees Act 2019. (NB No section 21 notice may be given in relation to a tenancy where a landlord has breached section 1(1) or Schedule 2 of the Act so long as all or part of the prohibited payment or holding deposit has not been repaid to the relevant person or applied to the rent or deposit with the consent of the relevant person)


Landlords who are unsure about whether they are affected by these provisions should seek specialist advice.


This form must be used for all ASTs created on or after 1 October 2015 except for statutory periodic tenancies which have come into being on or after 1 October 2015 at the end of fixed terms ASTs created before 1 October 2015. There is no obligation to use this form in relation to ASTs created prior to 1 October 2015, however it may nevertheless be used for all AST.

G_M

Thanks Simon but that is not an updated version of the checklist I refered to. That is a Form 6a.


The check list notes say:
"Version

This version was uploaded on 8 April 2018."

Comms69

PayOffTheLoans wrote: »

Hi all

I have read the excellent guide to ended an AST but just wanted to clarify a something about my situation.

I have received a section 21 notice today giving me 2 months notice on my flat and asking me to vacate on the 21st August 2019.

I have an AST which runs from 18th August 2018- 17th August 2019. I pay my rent on the 18th of the month.

I have requested to continue as a periodic tenancy and even accepted a rent increase but the letting agent has said they will only agree to a 12 month tenancy. Probably because the letting agent then gets the fee for the last time... There have been no problems with the tenancy but as I am in the process of buying, I am writing directly to the landlord as I suspect they have no really knowledge of what is going on.

My questions are

1. When should my notice period be valid from? I thought I should have been given 2 calendar months in which case the notice date should be 17th September 2019 and therefore this section 21 is invalid. They have complied with all other aspects of the section 21. - calendar months, surely this term isn't that misunderstood, means from any date.

2. If it is invalid, should I acknowledge I have received it or just ignore them until nearer the time and then let them try and take us to court.

3. If I am staying an extra month do you think it would show good intentions to pay the extra amount requested on the 18th August. It is a fair amount and I am happy to do this

4. If it is valid and I have interpreted wrong, how should I calculate the rent I would need to pay from the 17th-21st of August? - move out on the 17th. a s.21 doesn't end your tenancy anyway, so you need to serve your own notice

I would appreciate your help as the extra month could mean the difference between forking out 100s on storage costs and accommodation whilst we complete on our house and a smooth moving experience.

I also harbour no hard feelings towards the landlady as she has unfortunately left it fully managed. However, I want to do everything properly and give no leeway as the letting agents are a truly awful bunch and seem to forget their legal obligations

Thanks so much for your help and the excellent information provided by people on this site

If you want to stay, simply stay, average eviction times are 6 - 9 months.

ThePants999

If you're buying a property, I suggest you ignore the S21. Arrange for the right amount of time between exchange and completion on your purchase, and give your own notice to your landlady when you exchange. It's highly unlikely they'll actually take you to court for possession, and even if they do, it'll cost you less than trying to cover the gap between leaving this property and entering your new one.

Nitpicking: you're misusing "calendar month". The S21 notice period is two "calendar months", it's just that it doesn't have to coincide with your rental periods, unlike your own notice.

PayOffTheLoans

Thanks everybody.

My partner is worried about the implications if it does go to court. Costs makes sense but he is worried having a court agreement against us.

Our letting agents have shown themselves to be quite vindictive. Could the landlords agent take it to court?

The flat was already on their website as for let before we even received the section 21.

Comms69

PayOffTheLoans wrote: »

Thanks everybody.

My partner is worried about the implications if it does go to court. Costs makes sense but he is worried having a court agreement against us. - why? it doesn't mean a thing.

Our letting agents have shown themselves to be quite vindictive. Could the landlords agent take it to court? - no. not unless their a qualified solicitor also

The flat was already on their website as for let before we even received the section 21.

- irrelevant

PayOffTheLoans

That is what I thought. Thanks for all your help.

System

G_M wrote: »

Thanks Simon but that is not an updated version of the checklist I refered to. That is a Form 6a.


The check list notes say:
"Version

This version was uploaded on 8 April 2018."

Ah yes it is, having read through the check list the link goes to nothing has really changed so is still relevant as anyone giving notice now will be bound by pre 1st June tenancy agreements and legislation. Any new changes will only come in to force in 2020.