Supplier trying to recover defective kitchen worktop

kildaman

This is regarding a quartz 5.2m long single run kitchen worktop & upstands for an IKEA Metod kitchen I purchased online in February. It cost £2500 approx and the price included templating and fitting. NB The worktop was NOT purchased from IKEA. I paid for it by Amex credit card.

The worktop, upstands, and an undermount sink I had purchased were installed in early March.

As the fitters arrived late, my kitchen fitter was not present when they did the main install and I only arrived back after most of the work was done. When they left I noticed an issue at one end of the worktop which runs up to a 2m tall cabinet. The side of the worktop nearest the wall was flush with the cabinet while the outside edge was 10mm from it. The issue is quite visible as it is on a kitchen that goes the full length of one side of a rear extension and it site right by the kitchen oven so is visible when using them.

I contacted them about the issue and sent images of the problem. They suggested an upstand to hide the problem. They returned to fit this but the material did not match. I asked them to replace the defective item but they refused. They still suggested using an upstand to hide the problem. I then had difficulty getting in contact with them and decided that they were avoiding me. I raised a dispute with the credit card company and said that I would like to raise a section 75. The credit card company raised the dispute as a charge back and said it would take 6-8 weeks to investigate. I sent proof of the issue to them and the money was creidted back on to my card.

Apart from one further conversation with them, and an email from me saying their suggested solutions were not acceptable and that I awaited their response to addressing the defective goods, I did not hear from them after the end of April until last week when they emailed me to say they wanted to recover the worktop. As I have been considering what to do I have not yet replied, so they have followed up with a further email threatening me with their solicitor. I was expecting that the supplier would negotiate a solution or compensation but this did not happen.

I have talked to the card company and they confirmed they took the money off the supplier on 20th May. They also said that I should allow them to retrieve the worktop and that the supplier could ask for the money back after 45 days if the goods are not returned.

I am not sure at this stage if I want to get the piece replaced as I have little trust in the quality of their work. To allow them to come to retrieve it, I feel I would need money in escrow to cover the cost of any damage they do when removing it.

So I'd like to find answers to the following questions:
1. As the card company has taken the money back from the supplier, who actually owns the worktop in this situation?
2. What are my rights in this situation with regards to them recovering the worktop and any damage they cause?
3. What rights does the supplier have with regards to the worktop and its recovery?
4. Can they get entry to my house to recover the worktop in any way other than with my permission?
5. If they cannot get entry to my house, what action could they take? Can they sue me to recover any money?
6. What action could I take against them for this including delays to finishing the kitchen, stress, etc.?
7. Is my approach above regarding money in escrow viable?

Any other suggestions and comments would be welcome.

[Deleted User]

The supplier owns the worktop as you didn't pay for it. They can't force entry, but the can if course take legal action to recover their goods.

If they cause any damage, you can address that at the time.

KatrinaWaves

Not really sure why you feel you have any rights over an item you have been refunded for. They are not going to give you an undetermined amount to cover damage before it even happens.

Anyway your questions
1. The company. You haven’t paid for it
2. You have the right to let them get the worktop and then sue them for any possible damages if they do not pay
3. They have the right to get their property back
4. No but you would not win if they sued and could claim legal fees for you refusing to let them access their property
5. Yes they could sue you, plus claim legal fees as you are being unreasonable
6. Right now the delays and stress seem to be being exacerbated by you. Stress is hard to quantify. You could have asked them for a goodwill gesture initially but after a chargeback and refusing them entry to retrieve their property that seems unlikely.
7. No it is not.

BoGoF

Why did you expect them to negotiate after you made a Section 75 claim and they have effectively not been paid by you?

You mention escrow, not a term often used in the UK - are you in the UK?

steampowered

I think you have to let them recover it. It is not reasonable to keep both a full refund and the work top.

You could supervise the work to ensure no damage occurs?

Paul_DNAP

kildaman wrote: »

So I'd like to find answers to the following questions:
1. As the card company has taken the money back from the supplier, who actually owns the worktop in this situation?
2. What are my rights in this situation with regards to them recovering the worktop and any damage they cause?
3. What rights does the supplier have with regards to the worktop and its recovery?
4. Can they get entry to my house to recover the worktop in any way other than with my permission?
5. If they cannot get entry to my house, what action could they take? Can they sue me to recover any money?
6. What action could I take against them for this including delays to finishing the kitchen, stress, etc.?
7. Is my approach above regarding money in escrow viable?

Any other suggestions and comments would be welcome.

1. The supplier absolutely owns the worktop.
2. You must allow them a reasonable opportunity to recover their property from your home. You must not be unreasonably obstructive in this process.
3. The supplier has a right to recover their property, alternatively they have the right to recover the cost of it through the courts if you don't allow them to do so in a reasonable manner.
4. No, they can't force entry to your home. Even if it gets as far as high court bailiffs they can't fully force entry.
5. Yep, they can drag you though every court possible, and have collection agencies and bailiffs all adding their fees onto the amount of money you own. They will ultimately end up with a high court writ to recover the money or goods to the value of (and not the worktop, that's got a low value at auction, they'll be looking at things like cars and tellies primarily).
6. None whatsoever, the delays are currently created by you.
7. No such system exists, you must be prepared to expect to see some signs that a worktop has been installed and then removed, this will not count as damage in the terms you're describing here.

societys_child

You've been refunded for this 'defective' worktop, and now want to keep it :huh:
It's theirs, not yours, give them it back before they start proceedings.

KatrinaWaves

societys_child wrote: »

You've been refunded for this 'defective' worktop, and now want to keep it :huh:
It's theirs, not yours, give them it back before they start proceedings.

Things are very often totally unacceptable until they become free...

DoaM

So the worktop isn't lying flush against the tall cabinet.

Have you considered that the issue may be that your wall is "warped" / has a slight "kink" near that end of the worktop and where the tall cupboard exists? This could cause the issue you see.

Or is the issue that they cut the worktop in such a way that it doesn't sit flush?

Manxman_in_exile

BoGoF wrote: »

Why did you expect them to negotiate after you made a Section 75 claim and they have effectively not been paid by you?

You mention escrow, not a term often used in the UK - are you in the UK?

I studied law as an undergraduate and graduate for four years and never came across the term except in US films and TV, and John Grisham novels.

kildaman

DoaM wrote: »

So the worktop isn't lying flush against the tall cabinet.

Have you considered that the issue may be that your wall is "warped" / has a slight "kink" near that end of the worktop and where the tall cupboard exists? This could cause the issue you see.

Or is the issue that they cut the worktop in such a way that it doesn't sit flush?

The latter.


The supplier templated the worktop prior to cutting and fitting so any issues with the walls or cabinets should have been accounted for in that process. Nothing was touched in the kitchen between the templating and fitting. The supplier's production manager admitted to me on the phone that the error was caused by the templating process. This is a detail omitted in my original post for brevity.