Port of Wells - all day ticket purchased but PCN still received

Coupon-mad

The slip at the bottom is just titled ‘payment slip’ – is that where you mean for the fleet manager to respond with my details as the vehicle hirer?

Yes of course, they should always do this to transfer liability away from them!

Presumably it would be better if I could persuade the fleet manager to use the fleet manager letter suggested by Edna Basher (on 13 August 2018) linked in the Newbie thread to say:
- confirming who the vehicle hirer is [ABC] (but not the driver)
- stating no evidence is provided for the penalty
- non-compliance with Sch 4 of POFA and that CE has forfeited any right to claim any unpaid parking charges from [ABC] as the vehicle’s hirer and keeper
- request within 28 days CE’s acceptance that it cannot and does not hold ABC liable for the parking change and that it is a matter for CE and the driver.

No, because then the POPLA appeal will be down to your Fleet Manager and I can't imagine they want to get involved.

Or me just write to them and get them to write to me as the vehicle’s hirer and start the process from there using one of the other templates?

No, you need your firm to give your name and address like I said, as you can't appeal their PCN! You need to wait till you get your own then use the lessee/hirer appeal in the NEWBIES thread (not the Fleet Manager one).

newuser2011

Thanks coupon mad. But as I said in my last post, my fleet team is refusing to get involved / contact the parking company?!!

What about using Alanjuk’s template which I linked to in my most recent post?

Redx

it never ceases to amaze me how people paid to do a job refuse to do the job , or do it properly, those people should be sacked for not doing their actual job which as a fleet manager is managing the fleet (and the paperwork , according to the various laws and rules)

CM is correct that you cannot appeal that pcn because it is not in your name, hence why we have told you to tell the fleet manager to name you as hirer/lessee, which they should be doing to meet POFA and also the BVRLA guidelines

we dont tell you these things for no reason

at the moment you have no legal involvement because its not in your name , hence why you want your lease co to name you as lessee and give your name and address , not exactly a big issue or a hard thing to do

if they fail to do so, they are liable for the pcn and its their own fault if it costs them money, the same would apply for a speeding ticket or other legal contravention

their refusal to deal with it is obstinacy in its worse form , coupled with ignorance and not doing their job properly means they should be fired and somebody taken on who does what their job contract entails them to do

newuser2011

Thank you Reds, I agree with all you say, but are you able to point me to a clause or statement in legislation or similar which I can point them to, do that they understand their obligations?

Redx

tell them to google POFA , and to contact the BVRLA if they are members, there is enough guidance on this over the last 6.5 years !!!

read this too

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6007392/pcn-lease-company

and

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6008080/hirer-v-keeper-driver

bear in mind that the pcn received by your firm or fleet manager is an invoice , presumably with the name of the company on it (same as all the other invoices they receive)

they are liable for their own name invoices , they would not pass any other invoice such as for petrol or insurance or vehicle parts on to you, this is no different

if they expect the claimant to pass the invoice to the correct person , they must name that person and give a serviceable address for that person, ie:- YOU

ps:- in this thread below the Hire Co messed up the lessee/hirer details and so his defence is that the HIRE CO failed to transfer liability to the hirer/lessee under POFA because they gave out incorrect details , meaning that the HIRE CO is still liable for the original pcn (as is your firm at the moment in your own case)

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6009069/claim-form-cel-county-court&page=2


so your firm has a choice to make


either they keep liability by not writing to the PPC and transferring liability to the lessee/hirer with that persons name and address


OR


they do name the lessee/hirer and they then have no further involvement in this case (plus do the same with any other private pcn,s in the future)


what they cannot do is pass it on to you to deal with because it is NOT in your name , so return it with those words and include the name and address that you are happy for them to divulge , and give your permission for them to do so under GDPR

Coupon-mad

The only other alternative is to ask the Fleet idiots for an email confirming that the PCN has been passed to you to appeal as lessee/hirer, and that they give full authorisation to you to take liability as lessee, and appeal.

DO NOT let them put 'as driver' in the email. Only 'as the lessee'.

But they are on much firmer ground if they simply do what the law says and transfer liability to their lessees for the price of a stamp, and keep proof. That means they are no longer liable. It's daft if they don't know this! The private PCN even tells them!

newuser2011

The fleet team have agreed to send the payment slip back with my name and details as the usual keeper so will await a PCN at my home address! Thanks for all your various contributions so far.

newuser2011

I have now had a PCN sent to me (well, not quite, they have spelt one of my names incorrectly) at my home address.

Previously, a PCN had been sent to my employer (it is a company registered vehicle), and they agreed to send the reply slip back with my name and home address.

So my question now is, with the benefit of the PCN image attached, what do you think is the best advice for how/when to respond?

I have previously outlined what actually happened on the day (all day ticket purchased (ticket no longer held unfortunately), car park was used in the morning, the car left and returned in the afternoon). The PCN is for when the car entered in the afternoon, it says we didn’t park in accordance with the terms and conditions but I’m not aware that any rules were broken and the PCN doesn’t state exactly which rule(s) were supposedly broken.

Let’s say that the following is the timeline (dates adjusted but the periods between are all the same):
10 May - Date of parking
8 June – “PCN Issue Date” of the PCN sent to my employer
14 June – date the first PCN was passed from my employer to me
23 June – date my employer sent reply slip back to “Civil Enforcement Ltd” giving my name and home address
19 July – PCN received at my home address with my name spelt incorrectly (“PCN Issue date: 14 July”)

If I assume that they received my details on 24 June (the day after it was sent by my employer), the “PCN Issue Date” of the PCN received at my home address is 21 days after they received it (including the day that I assume they received it) even though the PCN was not received at my home address for another 5 days.

So I’m not sure if using the template purely on timescales will work? If not, what are the next steps you would suggest?

Hopefully this link to an image of the PCN works - first time i've used Imaguur! Personal details and photos have been deleted.

https://imgur.com/a/6N5VnxU

Thank you in advance.

newuser2011

Hello is anyone able to help with this please?

Thanks in advance

The_Deep

Has the question of bye laws been mentioned?